At around 40 years old, Adam Butler appeared to have everything society says should make a person successful: high-paying jobs, multiple houses, sports cars, and relationships. Internally, however, his life was collapsing. He was struggling with alcohol, depression, broken relationships, anger, and suicidal thoughts.

In a conversation on the Ayahuasca Podcast, Butler described how psychedelics became part of a much larger process of rebuilding his life. His story also opened a broader discussion about midlife crisis, the differences between DMT and ayahuasca, the importance of safety, and why psychedelic experiences ultimately matter only if their lessons are integrated into everyday life.

When External Success Is Not Enough

Butler describes his crisis as a realization that external achievements were not solving his internal problems. Looking back, he believes warning signs had been accumulating for years, but he repeatedly found ways to avoid them.

He compares these signals to warning lights on a car. Stress, unhappiness, unhealthy relationships, overwork, substance use, and a persistent sense of meaninglessness may indicate that something deeper needs attention. The problem is that people can spend years masking those signals rather than examining them.

For Butler, the situation eventually became impossible to ignore. He stopped drinking alcohol and began exploring psilocybin after hearing about other people’s therapeutic experiences. He says those experiences forced him to examine parts of himself he had previously avoided.

The DMT Experience That Changed His Direction

Butler says mushrooms helped him recognize his problems, but DMT produced the dramatic perspective shift that changed his direction. At the time, he was in an extremely dark place and contemplating ending his life.

He describes the experience as an intense confrontation with himself rather than a simple escape from his problems. One of the central realizations was that he could not continue looking for external solutions to internal pain.

Importantly, Butler does not describe psychedelics as a magic fix. His problems did not disappear after one experience. Instead, he says the experience illuminated what needed to change and helped him begin moving forward differently.

DMT vs. Ayahuasca

A major part of the conversation focused on the differences between inhaled DMT and ayahuasca. Butler describes inhaled DMT as extremely intense but remarkably brief, with the main experience often lasting only several minutes. Ayahuasca, by contrast, creates a much longer process and is traditionally experienced within a ceremonial environment.

Butler has experience with both and sees value in different approaches. However, both he and host Sam Believ emphasize that powerful psychedelics should be approached carefully. Psychedelic experiences can be disorienting and unpredictable, particularly for inexperienced users.

The discussion repeatedly returns to the importance of preparation, trusted support, a safe environment, and respect for the intensity of the experience.

Why the Container Matters

Butler initially approached psychedelics largely through personal exploration, but he says guided experiences gave him a new appreciation for what it means to have someone properly hold space.

Even an experienced person can encounter frightening or confusing experiences. Having trusted people present can provide physical safety, reassurance, and grounding when normal perception changes dramatically.

Believ also distinguishes between personal experimentation and traditional ayahuasca practice. Based on his experience working with thousands of retreat participants, he argues that people seeking healing should ideally gain experience in a structured environment before considering more independent forms of psychedelic exploration.

Integration Is the Real Work

Despite the extraordinary experiences Butler describes, his strongest message is surprisingly practical: what happens afterward matters most.

Integration can mean changing relationships, leaving destructive environments, improving daily habits, practicing meditation or yoga, creating art, spending more time in nature, or surrounding yourself with people who hold you accountable. The specific path will differ from person to person.

Butler believes psychedelic experiences can make it difficult to continue ignoring patterns that are clearly damaging. But recognizing those patterns is only the beginning. Lasting change requires acting on what was learned.

From Healing to Growth

The conversation ultimately moves beyond psychedelics themselves. Butler stresses that these substances are not for everyone and that people can reach greater peace, self-knowledge, and fulfillment through many other paths.

Believ compares psychedelics to a helicopter ride to the top of a mountain: they may briefly show someone a radically different perspective, but eventually that person returns to the ground and still has to find a sustainable way upward.

For Butler, that is where the real transformation happens. Psychedelics may provide an interruption, a mirror, or a glimpse of another way of living. The goal is not to remain dependent on extraordinary experiences, but to build an ordinary life that no longer feels necessary to escape.

Listen to the whole podcast episode here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3NPD9JNZiPBP9IOWpwb1fG?si=s3IvO_ClTo6U-b0g4xXbHQ

Paul F. Austin has spent more than a decade helping move psychedelics from the counterculture into mainstream conversations about healing, creativity, leadership, and personal transformation. As the founder of Third Wave and the Psychedelic Coaching Institute, his work focuses heavily on education, responsible use, and what he calls the “third wave” of psychedelics.

In a conversation on the Ayahuasca Podcast, Austin explained how his own experiences with LSD and microdosing shaped his career, why he believes education will determine the future of psychedelic culture, and how the next phase may depend less on proving that psychedelics can work and more on teaching people how to use them responsibly.

From Personal Experimentation to Third Wave

Austin first experimented with psychedelics in his late teens and early twenties. Raised in a conservative Midwestern family, he initially struggled to reconcile his positive experiences with the warnings he had heard about illegal drugs.

By 2015, growing research and public discussion led him to take psychedelics more seriously. He began a structured LSD microdosing protocol and soon launched Third Wave as an educational resource for people interested in exploring psychedelics with more intention and context.

Over time, that platform expanded into media, books, practitioner training, and retreats, but education remained at the center.

What the “Third Wave” Means

Austin describes the first wave of psychedelics as the ancient and indigenous use of entheogenic plants and fungi. The second wave was their reintroduction into Western culture through substances such as LSD, clinical research, and the counterculture of the 1950s and 1960s.

The third wave, in his view, is about integration into everyday society. That means moving beyond the idea that psychedelics belong only in underground ceremonies or clinical settings and developing cultural frameworks for awe, mystery, creativity, spirituality, and transformation.

He believes the success of this wave will depend heavily on whether society can create safe and meaningful containers for these experiences.

Why Microdosing Matters

Microdosing has been central to Austin’s work because he sees it as a gentler entry point for people who are curious about psychedelics but hesitant to begin with a high-dose experience.

He favors a stepwise approach: starting with lower doses, observing the effects, and gradually deciding whether deeper work is appropriate. He argues that this may help people become more familiar with altered states while reducing the fear surrounding stronger psychedelic experiences.

Austin also stresses that microdosing should not be treated as a magic pill. In his view, its value depends on the habits and practices that accompany it, including meditation, breathwork, sleep, exercise, nutrition, and intentional behavioral change.

Different Psychedelics Create Different Experiences

One theme throughout the conversation is that psychedelics should not be treated as interchangeable. Austin describes psilocybin as generally more emotional and somatic, while LSD tends to be more stimulating and cognitive. Huachuma, or San Pedro, sits somewhere between the two in his framework, combining stimulation with a stronger sense of embodiment.

Ayahuasca is different again. Austin and host Sam Believ discussed its strong ceremonial context and the importance of gradually finding an appropriate dose rather than assuming everyone should receive the same amount.

This emphasis on calibration reflects a broader principle: the substance, dose, setting, intention, and person all matter.

Education Before Expansion

For Austin, psychedelic literacy is one of the most important tasks of the current movement. People need to understand the differences between substances, the role of preparation and integration, the historical importance of indigenous traditions, and the fact that powerful experiences require appropriate support.

He believes the first decade of the modern psychedelic renaissance has focused heavily on public education. The next challenge is training enough skilled practitioners to work with people safely and responsibly.

That requires more than conventional psychotherapy skills. Facilitators must understand altered states, preparation, integration, nervous-system regulation, and how to create a stable container for experiences that can be emotionally intense and unpredictable.

Psychedelics as Tools, Not Destinations

Austin is also cautious about psychological dependence on psychedelic experiences themselves. Although psychedelics are generally not associated with the same compulsive use patterns as many other substances, people can still become attached to repeatedly seeking ceremonies without changing their daily lives.

For him, integration is what determines whether the experience becomes meaningful. Psychedelics may interrupt old patterns, but the real work happens afterward through changes in relationships, habits, values, and behavior.

That principle also shapes his interest in leadership. Austin believes psychedelic experiences can challenge ego-driven motivations and encourage leaders to reconsider what they build, why they build it, and how their work affects communities and the environment.

The third wave, then, is not simply about making psychedelics more available. It is about building the education, cultural understanding, and practitioner support needed to use them with greater maturity.

Listen to the whole podcast episode here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7wLg3otN17chKmNOSLLKmL?si=e14bdd6daaef400f