In this episode of host Sam Believ has a conversation with Phoenix White, founder of Sacred Celestial.

We touch upon subjects of postpartum depression, negative sides of facilitation, having hard life as prepararion to help others.

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Podcast Transcript

Introduction to Phoenix White

In this episode of the Ayahuasca Podcast, the host interviews Phoenix White, a mother, business owner, speaker, author, and founder of Sacred Celestial Phoenix. Phoenix shares her journey through trauma, motherhood, and the profound impact of psychedelics on her healing process.

The Reality of Postpartum Depression

Phoenix opens up about the realities of postpartum depression, emphasizing the often-overlooked physical and emotional challenges that accompany childbirth. “A lot of people forget that when the placenta comes out, it leaves a gaping wound inside of a woman,” Phoenix explains, highlighting the immense internal healing required post-birth. She shares her own struggles with postpartum depression, noting the stark contrast between her first experience at 25 and her second at 40, where she had more support and tools to cope.

Struggles and Support in Motherhood

Phoenix recounts how her first pregnancy at 25 was marked by depression, hair loss, and a lack of support, leading to a near-suicidal episode. In contrast, her second pregnancy at 40 was well-supported with a life coach, therapist, and a partner who was present and engaged. Despite the support, she still faced challenges due to chemical imbalances, underscoring the complexity of postpartum depression. She also discussed the importance of a multi-sensory support plan, which included songs, specific foods, and having a dedicated support team.

Discovering the Healing Power of Psychedelics

The conversation then delves into Phoenix’s journey with psychedelics. Initially skeptical, she was introduced to mushrooms while in Mexico, describing the experience as a life hack that profoundly expanded her self-awareness. She discusses the importance of proper guidance in psychedelic experiences, warning against unsupervised use, and emphasizing the significance of ceremonial settings for safety and deeper connection. She recalls her first mushroom ceremony in Mexico, which opened her eyes to the potential of plant medicine.

The Role of Shared Trauma in Healing

Phoenix also touches on the transformative power of shared trauma in her role as a facilitator. “Our stories and our processes are really, really hard,” she says, “but they make us more relatable and empathetic to the people we work with.” She recounts the challenges and responsibilities of being a facilitator, including managing participants’ expectations and the critical need for integration post-ceremony. She offers ongoing support through coaching and group sessions to help individuals incorporate their psychedelic insights into daily life.

Near-Death Experiences and Psychedelic States

Reflecting on her near-death experience during brain surgery, Phoenix draws parallels between the profound clarity and insights gained in both near-death and psychedelic states. “It’s like coming face to face with yourself,” she explains, underscoring the interconnectedness of all things and the spiritual dimensions of these experiences. She describes the in-between space she experienced during her near-death moment, a warm and beautiful place that felt like a different realm, emphasizing the importance of listening to inner voices and guidance.

The Importance of Integration

The episode also explores the nuances of facilitation, with Phoenix sharing her experiences managing difficult participants and the importance of creating a safe, supportive environment. She emphasizes the need for proper training and harm reduction to ensure the safe use of psychedelics, especially as their popularity and legalization grow. Phoenix highlights the significance of touch and physical presence in her ceremonies, noting that her approach involves multi-sensory healing experiences that differ from traditional psychedelic therapy.

Phoenix White’s Book: “Redefining Strong”

Phoenix’s book, “Redefining Strong: A Journey to Finding Yourself, True Healing, and Spiritual Recalibration,” is mentioned, offering readers a blend of autobiography, healing tips, and practical guidance. The book serves as a testament to her journey and a resource for others seeking healing and self-discovery. She describes it as a combination of her personal story and a workbook that guides readers through their own healing processes.

Cultural and Historical Significance of Psychedelics

The discussion also touches on the cultural and historical significance of psychedelics and plant medicine. Phoenix mentions the ancient use of psychedelics in ceremonies and the deep spiritual connections they facilitate. She notes the similarities between the neural networks in our brains, the mycelium networks in nature, and the interconnectedness of the universe, suggesting that these connections play a role in the effectiveness of psychedelic healing.


This episode provides a comprehensive look at Phoenix White’s transformative journey and her work with psychedelics. Through her story, listeners gain insight into the complexities of postpartum depression, the therapeutic potential of psychedelics, and the crucial role of proper facilitation and integration in the healing process. Phoenix’s experiences underscore the importance of support, empathy, and the interconnectedness of all life in the journey toward healing and self-discovery. Her unique perspective and dedication to helping others through their healing journeys offer valuable lessons and inspiration for anyone interested in the profound benefits of plant medicine and personal transformation.