Very unique format podcast where one of the LaWayra Ayahuasca retreat guests is interviewing a shaman (Taita) Fernando. And one of the facilitators Nico is translating.
This should give you a good insight into the Shamans mind.
Transcript
Sam Believ: You’re listening to ayahuasca podcast.com.
Hi guys, and welcome to Ayahuasca podcast. This time it’s something very different. We are going to have a very hybrid interview. Here with t Mano Nico will be translating. Crystal is gonna be the one asking the question. So Crystal and I came to the retreat about a month ago and she reached out to me about wanting to interview t to make a, an article.
And I said, why don’t we record a video? And this way we can all keep the video. I’ve been trying to get an interview with Venado for a very long time and he’s never really wanted to do it, but, recently he stopped being camera shy. So finally, now we can, the moment has come.
So the formula of this interview will be crystal asking questions to Fernando and Nico will be translating. So I won’t be in it. I will be behind the camera. So Crystal walk us through it. What’s different,
Crystal: Sam?
Sam Believ: This episode is sponsored by Lara Ayahuasca Retreat. At Lara, we combine affordability, accessibility, and authenticity.
Lara Connect. Heal, grow guys. I’m looking forward to hosting you.
Crystal: So as Sam mentioned, I was privileged enough to attend the Levi retreat. Very fascinated with this healing space and also with Tya and his skills as a shaman. The interview today, I spoke with many other guests at the retreat and they. Gave me some questions.
I’ve got my questions and we’ve divided the interview into three sections. The first section is the background, which we’ll deal with Tia’s life in the Amazon. The next section will be about the actual Ayahuasca ceremony, and the third section of the interview will be about the Amazon.
Taita Fernando: Awesome. Great.
Beautiful. Yes.
Crystal: Yes.
Taita Fernando: We shall be good.
Crystal: Ready? Awesome. Okay. Still. So Tata, many of the patients at Lorea are very interested in your background.
Can you please tell us about life in your village
Taita Fernando: Into.
We can summarize a little bit because it’s a lot of years
his family has been working with the medicine from generation to generation.
Nico: His family has been the ones cultivating the medicine for many years and now they’re, they prepare the
Taita Fernando: medicine harvest.
And throughout the whole
Nico: process, when his father started
Taita Fernando: topping Tuan to his children about the medicine and how it works,
he began to find some interest in Ayahuasca, Jackie,
Nico: because then there’s also other kids that just had no interest for the medicine. Okay,
and when, and no moment in his life that he felt like he was forced to participate in the medicine. His pal, his family would tell him that this all comes from real heart. So if you wanna do this, let it be from your heart.
Taita Fernando: For him and his family. It was something that was magical that just grew in him, that he wanted to work with his culture, work with his medicine,
very beautiful. ’cause nowadays, because he a lot of indigenous groups, they cannot schools us different, that dedicate themselves to different things.
Nico: And it’s only a few of ’em that have continued this path and this tradition of working with the medicine.
So as him being a child and his brothers and sisters they started understanding more of the medicine with
Taita Fernando: his grandparents,
Nico: the wisdom of what this ancestral medicine brings and the visions and the, and the effects of
Taita Fernando: what this medicine can do.
But
Nico: it was a little challenging because working with the medicine and as he was turning a teen in his adult lives was kinda hard for him to work with this, but trying to understand it more.
Because him observing other s and other shamans working with the medicine, he would see from his part that some other people
Taita Fernando: won’t use the medicine in an accurate correct way.
So he would question himself and be like, why are they acting this way
Nico: or participating in this manner working with this medicine.
Taita Fernando: From there, that’s when this path began. In how old were you
and that time he was 12, 30 years old.
The differences from him was that he didn’t wanna be a shaman that drinks alcohol,
that just wants to go and travel around the world, trying to give medicine, but at the end, feel empty in their hearts.
In
Nico: nowadays, now in his age, he’s been able to see that this is something very like marked that a lot of Titus do and he is, he’s able to witness that as his age now.
And this is just not for him to downtalk other S or put ‘
Taita Fernando: em into shame or anything like that. It’s just something that he said that this is not what I want to do because there is a lot of s that have a lot of knowledge, very respected and wise. And of course, as a little child, he was able to see all these.
Understanding how to cook the me or how to prepare the medicine
because the music has been his heart,
because
Nico: the music, as you can tell, is a huge part of the ceremony. It’s very important.
Especially for them because there’s a lot of communities that do it differently.
Taita Fernando: So now just to summarize it, he just feels very content and happy that he’s able to share this
Nico: medicine and especially where he’s at right now in his life.
Taita Fernando: That is the very small summary
because of course there’s a lot of experiences that he’s gone through.
Yeah. At the age of 24 is when he started learning about the world
Nico: and started traveling.
Taita Fernando: Amania.
Germany Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Venezuela,
where the medicine has taken him.
Crystal: Can you ask. I understand that the shaman received a message that they were to lead the Amazon and bring the medicine to the outside world as Tata’s explaining. Can he share the story of why the medicine came out of the Amazon?
Taita Fernando: He’s not too sure because I guess from his culture, just he’s not sure if it’s through ego or in a sense of making it seem like this medicine’s only for us.
But in reality, the virus is for all humanity
because it’s a creation from God that he led here for humanity
privilege. ’cause he has this indigenous blood
Nico: and have the, and be fortunate to feel, to know about this medicine ahead of time, obviously. Yeah.
Taita Fernando: So it was a very beautiful moment where we had the
Nico: opportunity. We had the opportunity to understand more about the SPI medicine.
Crystal: Yeah. For people who don’t know what Ayahuasca is.
Taita Fernando: The last question you asked.
It’s important that,
that’s very important to know that now the medicine is now being able to be shared amongst the whole world. Si.
Because one, there’s been a lot of people that have come from different countries
that.
And some came with respect to, to come here and took the medicine
and others saw that they can have control with this medicine and gain money out of it. And then that’s another reason why they started taking it to other countries.
In the same way, like them as indigenous people,
they also, that
Nico: they could also share, share,
Taita Fernando: go out of the world with their knowledge para to go to shares
and at the same time not have this be seen like just another drug.
Because there’s a lot of people that drink this medicine that just see like another drug.
Nico: Because they just put it like a recreational taboo fan,
and they’re not giving any disrespect and this honor how the medicine should be receding.
Taita Fernando: The same way that other
Nico: started
Taita Fernando: leaving the
Nico: communities and sharing this medicine around the world. This medicine was also contributed around the world because of people that were just, curious about the medicine that came from different countries. And it came here and then started, spreading it out to outside world.
Yeah.
Crystal: I see. How would you describe your relationship? With the medicine,
Taita Fernando: very magical.
Something very magical. ’cause both the medicine as he was a child.
Nico: The middle of, through the taking of this medicine,
Taita Fernando: he was able to discover music more
what it represents, the music and ceremony.
The medicine is just as a plant.
That allows us to connect with our entire master self,
and this medicine is what releases things that inspire us.
Nico: It all depends on us to receive what is it that the medicine is trying to give us.
Taita Fernando: So we receive the medicine in the accurate way, how it’s supposed to be. It’s with law,
Nico: it’s a magical connection with your higher self.
Crystal: Ah do you take the medicine total like every day? Two Titus.
Taita Fernando: There was Aton when they were in school to,
they would take the medicine very,
but not just the medicine, even other plants that would allow ’em to get, gain more strength
to be, to get more stroke with the medicine spiritually.
Nico: And that was throughout when he was in
Taita Fernando: school to learn how to work in this field.
And that’s why nowadays it surprises him a lot.
There’s a lot of people that come here to drink one or two months of medicine
Nico: and they’re already here given medicine. Serving medicine,
Taita Fernando: there is something very strong, but this is pretty
Nico: much his connection with the medicine.
Crystal: Yeah. A beautiful connection. Yeah. To be a part of the ceremony is is a very special thing to receive the medicine. And many of the patients were wondering this because the ceremony starts with, type of singing and what are you saying they would like to know
Taita Fernando: at the moment that they’re doing this prayer, which is also known as. In their tradition,
they’re asking to the higher force, a higher SM
Nico: to
Taita Fernando: God
that throughout this prayer, the speaker that they’re utilizing with connection with God.
Nico: Is utilizing this prayer and putting
Taita Fernando: all the intention and love and light to this medicine to be able to prepare to serve it.
But like the same thing when you go and you pay for a ticket in the airplane. You have your ticketing, you have your seats
because you’re what somebody professional that’s gonna, pilot you and.
Nico: And so as him being the pilot, that God has given him the opportunity to be able to share with all these souls around him and him be able to be that pilot for everybody.
Crystal: We’re always curious because when you go up to receive your medicine how do you know how much medicine to give someone?
Taita Fernando: A
Nico: lot
Taita Fernando: of times it’s mostly the experience, right? ’cause it’s a lot of years. Yes.
Thousands of people. He had this opportunity
and millions of eyes that he connects with.
And one thing that does not is what reflects on your stare.
A lot of times he focuses in your look in your eyes to see how is it that you’re coming up to the altar? S And a lot of times it’s from their energy, how they approach,
because through the energetic. Force. They also feel the patients. They feel the people.
And a lot of times they could also see through the people situations
is a little bit,
Nico: is is
Taita Fernando: respecting you a little bit. You will see more about your life.
’cause every life has their own privacy.
And that’s why a lot of times people come to have a consult consultation with him
because Volunt voluntarily, they want to tell by their stories.
So also with what the people have explained to him. So not only the experience that he handle, that he has also connection with your eyes and your stare, and you reflect these, your energy,
and having that consultation between him and the person to have this vehicle connection to understand what is it about this person
is where the dosage comes in place.
And a lot of the patients, this is where medicine awakens these emotions si.
Crystal: It’s so much, there’s so much involved, like reading energies and
Taita Fernando: Yeah. See, yeah.
Says when you have the experience and the knowledge in all these years
Crystal: and special, I think special skills too, like within
Taita Fernando: something like their intuition that awakens the medicine.
Crystal: Okay. That’s amazing. After someone has taken the medicine and we’re all lying in the maloca on our beds, quiet. Like I know for me, when I was having a bad moment, I felt Titus presence granting me. So what is he doing when we’re all laying there?
Taita Fernando: It’s the same way he, that he was telling you. Yes, same. It’s the same analogy that we’re gonna use with the airplane.
Exactly. And you take that with when we take your cup
energetic, he’s, I have energy on that cup where he is doing his s his singing,
for example, 20 or 30 patients that are in the space. Yep. Begin to enter this process or the process with the.
The T themselves are also in their process as well. Meditating, doing prayers for everyone that’s in the space.
People perceive in a D in different ways,
and there will be one that won’t perceive him in a,
Nico: because it is energy.
Crystal: Ah, okay. Ah, it’s amazing. I couldn’t imagine to see the world through, through your eyes.
Taita Fernando: But the same way, it could be magical. He also wants to tell everybody that there are also s,
they’re not different than anybody else. They also have their emotions. They also have their battle interior battles.
And even with that, with all the knowledge that they’ve gained over all these years, yeah.
Nico: It’s also important that whoever wants to partake in this medicine is to understand or know where is
Taita Fernando: it they’re gonna take the medicine, who they’re drinking with.
Yes. There will be a lot that can make they can present themselves like Gods. Or make them or they, or feel like they’re superior and everybody else.
In reality, the ones that do understand the medicine and really understand how to serve this medicine,
what makes them different is that they do have their own school.
And so even their, the rope or their clothing that they wear in ceremony.
That can probably make ’em look a little different from everybody else because of what they’re wearing.
In essence, they’re also human in with emotions.
Crystal: I have to ask like T School, Shipman School,
how do you get into Tida school?
Taita Fernando: Wow.
Nico: First thing, the school, the way it should be is obviously starting from,
Taita Fernando: what does he mean by zero
Nico: is,
Taita Fernando: To start given service. How light, picking up a little piece of paper,
the most basic things, the most minimal things,
when you start falling in love with, giving a little paper tissue to somebody or to be able to share some water to somebody means that you’re advancing. And of course you’re also drinking medicine.
Nico: So a lot of times what happens is a lot of people wanna learn about the medicine
Taita Fernando: and they’ll tell them, oh, here, go pick up that little piece of paper, or go take this little, take this water, this to this person. End up going, nah, I don’t wanna do that.
And so it’s little things that start from the beginning, from the most minimal things, medicine.
Nico: His dad, his teacher stars. Increases the doses, starts increasing the wisdom, more knowledge, but it all starts from the most basicness. Yeah. From
Crystal: You have to prove yourself to go up to the next level.
Nico: And very beautiful. Those situations, those moments of how it builds into where he is now.
Crystal: Wow. I can’t imagine. I don’t know if you can answer this, but someone asked of all of the times that you have given the medicine, what’s been the cra and I don’t wanna say crazy, but the strangest thing perhaps that he’s ever witnessed or.
Taita Fernando: Story of himself.
Crystal: Oh, okay.
Taita Fernando: In Spain, ante.
And so they were in this do inside this dome,
okay? Remember there was a lot of patients and everybody already had drink medicine.
And so at this time, everybody’s earning the medicine already kicking in, and everything now is in silence in this dome.
And it was very beautiful because everybody was quiet and there was like a clear sound inside the dome,
but there was a moment where everybody started bomb.
In the donut and in the dough. It sounded like there was all these microphones because it just, I it
Amplified all the bombing
so remembers that night when everybody was all inside that dome. He ends up leaving the dome.
And so he started going up some staircase far away from the outside of the dome. And he sits down in the chair and out of nowhere his body leaves his whole Jesus’ body. So something left his body and he can see himself that he’s sitting this way. He was just observing himself.
He would look towards the sky.
It was like so infinite. It’s almost like a microscope. Like he could see distances on the where right there. And then he was saying to himself, I’m looking at his body right there.
I’ve just died.
And his body is just like that.
Now he’s saying to himself, great. Now my family, he’s equal. Just keep my kids. Yeah.
Already gonna take my bottom pack to Colombia. Jack is during Spain.
He was observing himself from the France.
Went outta nowhere. A friend of his started going up the staircase that also drank medicine. The organ organizer of the event
begins to touch char, wake him up. No, he didn’t respond. No.
Because him being in the chair and his eyes were closed, and him that was right in front of his own body was basically the observer of seeing what was going on.
So and his spirit self started going down the staircase. And he went to go see the patients and see how they’re doing.
Everybody’s doing good, and he just returns. The organizer, the guy who did the event, he ran downstairs because he got scared to see t.
He used his wire and his c it’s the liquid that he uses to, to his partner. Went up there, brought his own wire, and c
man, he tells that he is like, Hey, I’m gonna help you. I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’m gonna blow this on you.
And of course he couldn’t respond, but the one that was standing up, which was him outside of his body, he was like yeah, do that. And, but he wasn’t able to see him because he’s a superior. And the moment that the friend does the blow of the chand
And later on to.
And as he’s doing the spray his soul was started to unify back to his body. Finally came at he is birthday and he just wakes up and was like, what happened?
Crystal: How did you bring the pieces of that together? What does that mean?
Taita Fernando: Which just means that sometimes in our body,
what is the,
you have no sense of timing.
And then of course, a lot of, for a lot of, for many years or a lot of time, you don’t tend to understand what that means
or that maybe out of many years she wasn’t able yet to understand what the message was,
is to understand or to learn how valuable it is to cherish life.
And the value of being next to the people that love you
was the beings that you wanna be around with.
So that experience was to see, to feel something very strong and maybe something that at the moment he couldn’t understand. And he started experience many years ago. Yes.
When, but the same way that this something happened to him not too
Nico: long ago that he got some, had surgery on his thigh. Yeah.
Taita Fernando: And that’s where he finally understood that may understood what that meant, where maybe at that time you didn’t understand what that meant at that time. That life is an instant,
that life is just a moment. And any time, I could always end
that at the end, the only.
So kids is your family, it’s your friends, it’s everything that’s around you that makes you happy now.
And so that’s why he’s telling you about an experience that happened many years ago
that can also for example, him couldn’t understand. But he had to go through something very strong and challenging
something very strong because the Dr. Trump, we need to do surgery or you’re gonna die. And this is, and he don’t say the December, and this was on the 16th of December, and today we’re on the 6th of January. So this is that last mark. And he’s still here with us
and sharing this transcendental,
you just don’t understand at that time
then to recognize who we are and what we’re all.
Crystal: Ah, wow. And I to build on that question about integration, because there’s so many different ayahuasca experiences like sensory, visual what is.
Yeah. For people who have, are leaving the Ayahuasca retreat, what recommendation does Tata have for successful integration?
Taita Fernando: It’s a little complicated because there’s very few people that wanna open up and talk about their lives and share with him.
Obviously can’t have this connection with everybody. Obvious share. So a little, sometimes a little bit.
The most important. Pen of leaving a transcendental experience begin changing habits.
We lot of times, for example, we go every day. We leave every day to go drinks some alcohol.
If you’ve already had this transcendental experience, that’s the moment to stop that.
Give yourself some time to see the experience that you’ve lived
can, and the same way with what you eat, what you smoke with, what because all these days is what creates us an experience and creates this pan this moment that can bring difficulty into your life.
So the best way to integrate is. By changing habits so that way you can, so that way it could last longer the
Nico: experience that you’ve lived with. The medicine you’ve had with the medicine,
Taita Fernando: but that’s obviously voluntarily volunteer from yourself.
Because it, it needs to come out from the heart. If not, it’s just, it can’t be just something like
Nico: halluc and just temporary and that’s it. It needs to building that chain.
Taita Fernando: But if the patient or a person takes it with respect that this is a medicine,
the mess is gonna continue to work with you. The moment you beat the space and we go back at home.
Another thing that would be very important or beautiful is for them to continue listening to medicine, to meditate, so that way it also, within those modalities more answers.
This would be something that you would recommend when you listen to take care of yourself.
Crystal: Same. Just two more questions. I, and I should backtrack. So for anyone who is considering ayahuasca medicine, maybe they’re a little nervous, what advice does Tai to have for them?
Taita Fernando: First off is to give themselves that opportunity to learn about this medicine,
to investigate very well where is it that they’re gonna be drinking this medicine at Jackie? Line. Responsibility, because then res, the irresponsib, the irresponsible. Way of how some people get this medicine could also bring very bad consequences.
And so for those that wanna learn about this, to learn more about the medicine, to learn where they’re gonna be drinking and who they’re gonna be drinking with.
Because nowadays the one that wants to sell you a car sells a very beautiful.
Nico: So it’s very important and you don’t just listen or hear from others, but that you also
Taita Fernando: do the investigation and that you follow your heart and trust,
and to now lose this opportunity to learn more about yourself.
Don’t be scared of your own self
because the medicine’s also a journey of ourselves inside
contracts.
Nico: And so for those that wanna know about the medicine and give
Taita Fernando: this chance that to not have fear of finding more about themselves,
the medicine doesn’t kill people,
doesn’t leave you crazy.
What makes that things happen? Because there is cases like that.
There is people that give medicine, that leave the people even worse. I person, there’s people that give medicine that have killed other people
Nico: because of your responsibility.
I think is the same way he told you just a few minutes ago.
Because if you don’t have that knowledge of being able to center that person
Taita Fernando: again
in the process of medicine, the purchase like this,
when you get into a profound experience with the medicine, you begin to basically energetically dismantle.
So if you can’t, as a shaman be able to put him back to where he was, the person can damaged.
Nico: Important to investigate because the same way that the medicine could
Taita Fernando: do beautiful things, the people do beautiful things with the medicine, is the same way that other
Nico: people would do bad things with the medicine.
Crystal: Yeah. I can certainly speak to Lara and this is a very safe and caring space, so I recommend the medicine here.
With the medicine is it the same recipe every time?
Taita Fernando: There’s different types of medicine.
When the medicine, it could be the same recipe
or like an example, 10 liters of medicine
and that every time you’ll drink the same medicine for two years. Oh, okay. It’s what changes is what’s in medicine that you’re drinking.
Stress becomes different
based on your change and evolution of things that you’re now understanding. Huh? Oh, okay. The medicine consider gives you, give you something different every time.
Crystal: Oh, okay. I always wondered if it was like cooking, sometimes you put in more salt, but the medicine is the same.
Taita Fernando: No.
There’s the cases where there’s different, types of cha
or different classes of lineages.
So
Nico: I believe it’s a shrub and the Chev I’m not sure if I can say that in English, but I can
Sam Believ: yeah.
Taita Fernando: Yeah. So it’s just two
Nico: ingredients
Taita Fernando: that are used. Okay.
Another communities, they just add more plants, ano.
Nico: Shrub and one more thing, which
Crystal: it’s the family recipe. Okay. I promise. Last question, I promise. Yeah. Yeah. What do you feel is the best way that we personally can help save the rainforest?
Taita Fernando: Wow.
The best way is to create consciousness.
The consciousness which begin to create from ourselves. So we can begin to create this tune of,
there’s a lot of people that are taking care of the jungles.
But the same way, there’s a huge amount of people with power with money that are also destroying.
So we need first to create that consciousness and transmit that energy
And the other.
And to be able to reach out to these people of great power
and them to Drake medicine so they can create this consciousness.
Because nowadays the progress for these produce higher elites is having these huge concrete jungles,
but they don’t realize that without nature, we are nothing.
Without nature what nature shares with us, we just wouldn’t exist.
The, it’s so that battle of having power of having
that’s what we need to remove.
Nico: And so it’s creating this consciousness, this awareness of how we should be treating our jungles from our families, from our friends, and sharing this type of consciousness. So everybody,
Taita Fernando: and ask a lot, whether it’s the medicine or to the higher power to bad itself.
Nico: And ask for these type of elites, these individuals that are within this power to come to these spaces and to direct medicine.
Taita Fernando: Because nowadays it’s basically what you read or what in television or.
Nico: Your Marcus or, just your material things, your brands that you use, whatever Gucci,
Taita Fernando: that’s, that Fernando,
he just put in a message. Jose Fernando wants to heal nature. Some people just be like, okay. Crazy.
Nico: So the only way,
Taita Fernando: so
Nico: to do this, the where we start is building consciousness and awareness of this
Taita Fernando: because this is what we want, right? We wanna leave our children a better future. Yeah.
And for those that wanna destroy nature
Nico: doesn’t allow them to see that without nature, they are nothing.
Taita Fernando: For those that are awake and wants to save, nature
is very, because for us, I wanna change, but if we don’t, if we don’t exceed having power, having a lot of money. No, it’s very hard for us,
Nico: for those individuals. It’s much more easier for us to connect with nature and connect with this power. And,
Taita Fernando: and that’s why nowadays as well of very powerful things happening around the world with our nature.
Nico: Because in whatever form nature is talking.
Crystal: Yeah. Very loudly, I think.
Is there any final message that T would like to leave? That was
Taita Fernando: a
Crystal: pretty powerful one, but if there’s anything
Taita Fernando: I.
To give yourself this opportunity to know about this ancient tradition in medicine that can change our lives
in medicine where it doesn’t matter your religion or what you believe in
From religion is really what you’re feeling in our hearts.
Because in reality, the religion should be love. Nowadays. Your religion divides us, you nowadays, we scream for God or scream at God,
Nico: And behind our back, behind the backs,
Taita Fernando: we’re here talking bad about people. And yet we’re asking for the source to help us. That’s,
and so it’s very important to talk about what we feel,
talk, talk about how we feel, and not just talk empty words.
And for those that wanna come to the wire in the space.
All love. We’re here to share respect about love
Nico: and right here we’ll be waiting for you guys.
Sam Believ: I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you’d like to support us and psychedelic Renaissance at large, please follow us and leave us a like wherever it is you’re listening. Share this episode with someone who will benefit from this information. Nothing in this podcast is intended as medical advice, and it is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
This episode is sponsored by Lara Ayahuasca Retreat. At Laira, we combine affordability, accessibility, and authenticity. Laira, connect, heal, grow. Guys, I’m looking forward to hosting you.