In this episode of Ayahuasca Podcast, host Sam Believ (founder of http://www.lawayra.com) has a conversation with Mark John Brown, an integral performance and purpose coach with over 15 years of experience blending indigenous wisdom with modern business practices.
We touch upon:
Mark’s journey into plant medicine and indigenous culture (01:02)
Indigenous re-indigenization and its impact on self-development (04:20)
The role of ayahuasca in re-indigenizing the self (06:11)
Healing childhood trauma through psychedelics (09:29)
Indigenous concepts of reciprocity and sacred reciprocity (21:47)
Balancing spirituality with business in modern society (33:26)
Coaching strategies rooted in ancestral wisdom (40:17)
If you would like to attend one of our Ayahuasca retreats, go to http://www.lawayra.com.
Find more about Mark John Brown at his website nativewisdomhub.com or on Instagram @marcjohnbrown.
Special offer from Marc
https://www.nativewisdomhub.com/trauma-to-triumph
Transcript
Sam Believ (00:02)
Hi guys and welcome to Ayahuasca Podcast. As always with you the host Sambiliyev. Today I’m having a conversation with Mark John Brown. Mark is an integral performance and purpose coach. He’s a healer, entrepreneur. He dedicated over 15 years to integrating ancient wisdom traditions with modern business practices. His work is deeply influenced by his extensive experiences with indigenous communities in Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Brazil.
Marc-John (00:03)
you
Sam Believ (00:32)
Korea and Malaysia through this interactions. Sorry, I got a call. That’s the first.
Marc-John (00:36)
Thank
Marc-John (00:42)
⁓ It does, yeah. Thank you very much. That was a good introduction. ⁓ Thank you.
Sam Believ (00:44)
Through these interactions he has developed a unique approach to personal and professional development aiming to guide individuals towards a harmonious balance in life and business. Does that describe you well, Mark?
Sam Believ (01:02)
a pretty worldwide interaction you had with all those tribes. I would want to talk about that. before we begin, what brought you into this line of work, working with plant medicines and self-improvement healing?
Marc-John (01:18)
⁓ Yeah, well, ⁓ they say that, you know, I’m very interested in anthropology and ethnobotany and one of my core beliefs really is, ⁓ you know, that first comes the land, then comes the people, then comes the culture, then comes the language, right? And so language is like ⁓ a doorway, a portal to the truth of ⁓ a people, right?
Marc-John (01:48)
the way they express themselves is directly correlated with who they are and where they come from and how they behave, right? So ⁓ for me, I grew up from the age of 11 in Scotland with Argentinians and Paraguayans and particularly the Paraguayan people, there was something very ⁓ llamativo in Spanish, like something that like
Marc-John (02:17)
caught my attention quite a bit with the Guarani language and the fact that Paraguay has two lingua francas, two officially recognized languages. And there was lots of stories in my childhood and early teens about this. ⁓ And so yeah, by age 15, because of growing up with this family of Argentinians and this family of Paraguayans, I was completely bilingual. And this was my doorway to the cultures, of course. And then the cultures took me
Marc-John (02:47)
to the land and I went and I lived in Argentina for about six months but whilst I was in Argentina I went through this really big spiritual awakening ⁓ and ⁓ this big spiritual awakening it took me to come well to cancel my flight home first and foremost I went to hitchhike from Argentina through Chile and Bolivia into Peru and on that trip that’s when I came into real my first real visceral contact in person contact live in the flesh with the
Marc-John (03:16)
indigenous populations of the region, particularly and more specifically the Aymara and Quechua people of Bolivia. And so this merging of my spiritual awakening with my new encounter and fascination with these indigenous people, this is where it was all born. And yeah, five days after going into Peru, I met the woman who two weeks later I would move in with and then three months later I would marry and 16, almost 16 years later, almost 16 years later, here I am still married to her with two kids. And yeah, it was
Marc-John (03:45)
This was where it all began. My wife is a representative of one of the indigenous Vinigis of Peru. that’s where it all began.
Sam Believ (03:57)
Interesting story, guess mine was somewhat similar, you know women play a role in men’s journey, but you mentioned indigenous people and you talk about something that you call indigenous re-indigenization of self. Can you tell us what it is?
Marc-John (04:20)
That’s a great question man. Re-indigenization of self to me is the rewilding of self, it’s the returning to ancestral ways. ⁓ But not necessarily returning to an ancestral environment, just an ancestral culture. ⁓ and in doing so, I really believe, like I said, land and environment, people, culture, language, right? At the beginning of this call I said that.
Marc-John (04:49)
⁓ I think if we can rekindle ⁓ our indigeneity, which means our deep inherent connection with nature in a way that sees all of the elements and all aspects of nature personified so that we can be in an intimate relationship with nature and the elements, this is re-indigenization of self for me. And if we do that, then
Marc-John (05:18)
the level of care and attention and love and appreciation and need to protect the natural world will increase significantly. ⁓ What we are in intimate relationship with, we have a deep care for, right? So yeah, this is what I mean by re-indigenization of self.
Sam Believ (05:43)
That makes a lot of sense and I’ve been thinking that probably psychedelics can or plant medicine specifically can help a lot with that because you know in hosting so many people every year we see the process of people going from being indifferent to nature to connecting with nature and really appreciating it. So what do you think would be the role of plant medicine in this re-indigenization of self?
Marc-John (06:11)
It’s a huge piece, know, particularly ayahuasca, particularly ayahuasca and iboga maybe. ⁓ I mean, we can say it for all psychedelics, you know, particularly like, you know, psilocybin, the mescaline based cactus medicines, ayahuasca, which is DMT based, ⁓ iboga, which is of course ibogaine based. ⁓ But I think that
Marc-John (06:38)
There’s something about ayahuasca and iboga that are like, really just help us to see how intrinsically entwined and interrelated we are with the natural world, right? Like, and once you, I mean, you hear it ⁓ so often, you know, like people who go into ayahuasca ceremonies or Yahéi ceremonies or even iboga ceremonies, people who are engaging in psychedelic healing.
Marc-John (07:08)
events, they come out with a whole newfound understanding of their place in the natural world as an integral part of the natural world, meaning that every single action, ⁓ symbiotic if you will, symbiotic meaning like completely interrelated, meaning that every action that they take or even word that they speak might have an effect on their environment.
Marc-John (07:37)
which increases their level of care and attention that they pay to protecting the natural world.
Sam Believ (07:49)
Definitely, I think it can jumpstart this process and a lot of people. you mentioned ayahuasca and in your journey of self-discovery, what role did ayahuasca play?
Marc-John (08:04)
Huge. Yeah, huge. ⁓ Really helped me to ⁓ see the truth of just how big a blessing these two South American families in my childhood were, because they were able to provide me with a really strong contrast ⁓ against the childhood that I lived, which was like, highly toxic from a very
Marc-John (08:33)
dysfunctional family, you know. ⁓ So it made me see so much of the truth ⁓ of my upbringing, my childhood and ⁓ some of the limitations that I was experiencing in my late teens and early adulthood. ⁓ I was able to see the truth of those limitations that they were rooted in childhood. They were rooted in the way my mom treated me or the absence of my father. And then
Marc-John (09:02)
you know, knowledge is power. Once you have knowledge of why, then you can work on, you know, healing. Yeah.
Sam Believ (09:13)
And you mentioned childhood, so I know you talk a lot about childhood trauma. Tell us a little bit about that and what would your approach be in guiding somebody in healing childhood trauma?
Marc-John (09:29)
Yeah, that’s a big one, obviously, because there’s so many different types of trauma, different ways that trauma expresses itself in people. ⁓ But it’s really important for me and from the experience that I have, it’s really important to help prepare somebody adequately, powerfully, sufficiently when they’re moving towards taking ⁓
Marc-John (10:00)
you know, experiencing a psychedelic healing event and then also beyond the actual event supporting them supporting them to assimilate, integrate, make sense of, make peace with everything they ⁓ experienced in their psychedelic journey, their psychedelic healing event. That is ⁓ myself, this is how I set ⁓ the structure of the containers that I work with.
Marc-John (10:29)
is there’s like a set period of preparation which is focused and then there is the navigation. So I developed a method called the I3 method which features you know intention setting, inception which is like navigation of the actual psychedelic experience and developing a core set of tools for navigating the journey and then beyond that for several weeks there is a structured
Marc-John (10:59)
program that I work with people through, ⁓ which is the third I, the integration. So we have intention setting, inception, ⁓ and integration afterwards. And just helping people in a way that is trauma informed, sensitive, ⁓ person centered, client centered, helping them to really find their own answers to what their whole experience meant for themselves, Helping. ⁓
Marc-John (11:27)
I guess partner with them in their thought processes and emotional processing to be able to really fully land on the other side of their psychedelic healing experience. That’s how I help people ⁓ heal childhood trauma. Yeah, one of the ways anyway.
Sam Believ (11:50)
You also mentioned your mother and I think you talk about mother wound. What is the difference with that trauma specifically and how you yourself overcame it?
Marc-John (12:02)
⁓ I mean, I think for a man, it’s one of the biggest things, right? It’s one of the biggest pieces. ⁓ I can really only speak ⁓ with conviction about my journey as a man, right? You know, I can’t pretend that I have the answers to everybody else’s life. It’s not really my job. My job is to help people arrive at their own conclusions with their own life, whether they are women or men, right? ⁓ But in my own case, I think I really think that,
Marc-John (12:31)
⁓ As a man, ⁓ one of the biggest pieces for me was to cut the umbilical cord of energy, the energetic connection ⁓ of need and necessity that kept me being a boy, needing ⁓ my mom, needing ⁓ my mom to do things for me, ⁓ needing my mom to even tell me the size of my trousers. This was a big piece. ⁓
Marc-John (12:59)
A big piece in me becoming a man and ⁓ being able to become a competent father as well from a place of manhood, not of boyhood. ⁓ Yeah, ⁓ I think that’s probably the biggest piece for me. ⁓ And of course, ⁓ it was a strange one for me personally, know, like needing my mother, like moving into adulthood, needing her to do all these things for me.
Marc-John (13:28)
Whilst at the same time, being, ⁓ finding it very difficult to understand what my own needs were because I was parentified as a child, you know, because of having an addict mother, right? My mother’s like a deep ⁓ alcohol addict. She’s an alcoholic. ⁓ And so I was parentified because I was having to take care of her, you know.
Marc-John (13:57)
at an age when she should be taking care of me, right? ⁓ But then when she was well, how confusing, right? A dichotomy. When she was well, ⁓ she was, you know, like doing everything for me, like wouldn’t allow me to do important tasks, you know, in my life. Like didn’t like to release control of reality to hand over some responsibility to me.
Marc-John (14:25)
Right? Which made me kind of needing her for all the most crucial things in life whilst at the same time because I was always like caring for her and like whenever we went out or did something important in life like it would always be me who was having to be the adult taking care of her because she was not capable of like being conscious because she was drunk and stuff you know. Yeah. ⁓
Marc-John (14:52)
That’s what I’ve overcome. I’ve come to understand that and with the help of the medicines, just staying true to this medicine path, really grown into manhood and mature fatherhood and committed husbandry as well.
Sam Believ (15:09)
Thank you for sharing that. As somebody who has an alcoholic father, I understand the pain. The question I have for you is have you found that desire to help your mother with the newly found information you have and how, if so, how did it go?
Marc-John (15:29)
⁓ So good question, I think maybe for the first ⁓ Because you know, I mean I’ve been doing this for again almost 16 years now You said at the beginning of this call 15 years. That’s right, but it’s like it’s almost 16 You know like coming up February it will be 16 years. So ⁓ Yeah for the first I don’t know five six seven Maybe eight years of working with the medicine
Marc-John (15:59)
I was ⁓ always thinking about my mom, always wanting to help crack her open, help teach her new things, buying her books, telling her the stories. ⁓ And I remember one of the first medicine men and lineages that I worked with was of the Shuar people of Ecuador. in the middle of the ceremony, like in the middle of the ceremony, ⁓ I’m still young in my…
Marc-John (16:26)
in my life and also in my medicine journey, like in the middle of the ceremony I’m just having this journey about my mom and like how much she’s suffering and stuff and you know like right in the middle of the ceremony I got up to go to the the to the medicine man and just say hey man like you know we need to help my mom like how can I help my mom you know ⁓ and ⁓ and he said he said to me you know maybe one of the wisest things I’ve ever heard actually is you know
Marc-John (16:56)
⁓ We help these people change and conjure the desire in them to change by us changing ourselves and showing them how we change and become the new version of ourselves. So just keep doing what you’re doing and walking your path and being who you are. Yeah, ⁓ it’s good that you asked me this because it’s been a while since I remembered that.
Sam Believ (17:26)
Yeah, what he told you is what I tell people when they ask, you know, how can they convince family members to come drink awas. Cause like show by example, lead by example, if you change enough that when they’re ready, they will see you and they’ll be like, whatever it is you’re having, want some of that. This is one, this is one that might work. And speaking of alcoholism,
Sam Believ (17:55)
I’ve personally seen many transformation journeys with it and the medicine. What have you observed yourself? Maybe any tips for alcoholics listening?
Marc-John (18:10)
⁓ I think yeah, take care of yourself, you know like ⁓
Marc-John (18:22)
Number one, think is to find a way to love and appreciate yourself, you know? ⁓ That’s number one, like self-love and self-care. And the question that I always ask to people when ⁓ we’re looking for people’s own gifts and people’s own value in this world is like, you know, where out there in the world, where has life reflected back to you?
Marc-John (18:52)
your own value and your own worth. Where has life shown you that you are unique, you are needed, you are valuable? Where ⁓ has life spoken to you and shown you that you are needed or that you are valuable or that you are cherished? Find that. ⁓ Where is it? Whether it be somebody just being so grateful for a favor that you did for them or whether it be somebody telling you that you inspire them.
Marc-John (19:21)
you know, ⁓ or whether it be somebody feeling ⁓ genuinely connected to you and recognizing themselves in you and seeing, finding strength in you, you know, whatever it may be, like where, where in life does, you know, do you receive a reflection of your value? And then once we find that, of course, there is a bit of work.
Marc-John (19:50)
to open the heart and to allow more of this energy and actually for us to believe and really feel like okay this is true ⁓ but even if we don’t ⁓ at this juncture in time to go and seek more of that you know to go and commit to the same act or the similar act where somebody appreciated you or keep doing the thing that makes you inspire other people keep being in the place or doing the thing that helps other people recognize themselves in
Marc-John (20:20)
you right like just cultivate more of that energy ⁓ and and particularly with addiction as well I always say like ⁓ let’s do our best like okay fine the addiction is there okay like accept it fine and when we go if it’s too difficult to make the decision not to lift the glass of alcohol not to sniff the line of cocaine or
Marc-John (20:48)
whatever the addiction is, not to go to the prostitutes or whatever the addiction is. Let’s balance it out with something sacred, right? Okay, you don’t have to, if it’s too difficult, then don’t try to stop it. But complement it with something sacred. Compliment it with like a good act, an act of charity, something healthy, a cold bath or a prayer ceremony ⁓ or you know, whatever it may be, something sacred that fits your life, balance it.
Marc-John (21:17)
one addictive act is balanced with one sacred act and commit to like you a month, two months, three months of doing this and then see where the energies begin to leak. ⁓
Sam Believ (21:33)
It’s an interesting approach, very, very unique one, but does make a lot of sense. You talk about, you know, acts of service, and I think you like to talk about i.need. Can you explain to our listeners what is i.need?
Marc-John (21:47)
Yeah.
Marc-John (21:51)
⁓ I like your questions. ⁓ Yeah, Aini is a Quechua word and Quechua of course is a language that is ⁓ native to the Andes Mountains all the way from like Tierra del Fuego in Argentina right up to La Peninsula de la Guajira between Colombia and Venezuela right all the way through the Andes Mountains there are different dialects of Quechua. ⁓ so the Andean people of course they have their sacred traditions they have their own cosmology.
Marc-John (22:20)
⁓ and a core part of these Andean sacred traditions is the concept of Ayni. And it just basically means sacred reciprocity, but it doesn’t necessarily mean like, today I’m doing you a favor, so more you need to do me a favor. Like it’s not about one-upmanship or balancing power between people and acts, not necessarily. Ayni just literally means that it’s the nature of the cyclical, the cyclical nature of the universe, like we’re
Marc-John (22:49)
energy is taken from one place, is transformed and given to another place, right? So like, just like the ⁓ clouds, they give rain to places that need the corn to grow. And then ⁓ once ⁓ that happens, then the sun will lift the moisture back from the ⁓ land and create more clouds. And then the wind will take the clouds to another place where rain is needed, right? Just like fire, you know, gives
Marc-John (23:19)
us something that we need in heat and sustenance, warmth, right? ⁓ And we are able to also give back to nature through fire. We are able to make offerings to the fire, give things to the fire. ⁓ And also we are able to collect the ashes from the fire and take the energy of that fire and move it into another fire, right? Like this is Aini. It basically just means reciprocity. And you know, there are similar philosophies.
Marc-John (23:49)
that are part of what in North America are called the beauty way. It’s called the beauty way. In the Andes, it’s called ⁓ sumac causai. And in Guarani, of ⁓ the Tupi-Guarani people, it’s called teko poran. Just meaning living in right relationship, living in the beauty way, in the beautiful way, in the beauty way, in right relationship. Just meaning take what you need, but no more, and give as much as you take.
Marc-John (24:18)
Not necessarily to the same place, to the same person, to the same thing, but other places in your life, you know. One person might do you a favor and loan you money today or gift you money today and then in six months you gift something to somebody else and just make sure that you are keeping in right relationship by reciprocating with life in this way.
Sam Believ (24:44)
That’s a very, very valuable Indigenous wisdom. Speaking of Indigenous people, you you talk a lot about the reciprocity, Indigenous reciprocity. Can you tell us something about it?
Marc-John (24:57)
Yes. Yes.
Marc-John (25:02)
Yeah, indigenous reciprocity is, I mean for me it’s crucial. You know, because it allows us to one, re-indigenize, yes, bring this sacred principle of Ayni into our modern lives, but most importantly, most importantly, given the fact that the indigenous populations only make up like what, seven, eight percent of the planetary population, but the… ⁓
Marc-John (25:30)
are at the forefront of taking care of like 80 to 90 % of the planet’s natural resources, right? ⁓ And those are the ones that are most, they’re on the frontline of climate change. They’re most affected by our ravenous ways in the Western world, our, know, Dubai, New York, Los Angeles, Tokyo, London, these super, you know,
Marc-John (25:57)
energized and extractivist places that are fueled by extractivism. The effects, the biggest effects of this are received by the world’s living indigenous populations, even if we are blind to it in the big cities. ⁓ And ⁓ now, by living in this way, in this way of London and Tokyo and New York and Dubai and all these big cities,
Marc-John (26:27)
extractivist extractivism fueling our consumerism ⁓ because of this we we in the modern world we are losing our connection one to ourselves to our community and also to the natural world to our own indigenous nature and this is what is taking us to using psychedelics in the first place these ancient indigenous medicines ⁓ and for us to even think that we can be using
Marc-John (26:57)
these indigenous medicines to heal our malaisies, which are really like self-imposed by the society that we have chosen to create for ourselves without giving anything back to the indigenous populations. you know, whilst the indigenous populations are becoming extinct, know, languages becoming extinct, tribal values becoming extinct, know, indigenous traditions becoming extinct, all because
Marc-John (27:24)
you know, more and more of the world is being sucked up by this like Western kind of globalized capitalistic drive. indigenous reciprocity is that is making sure that we are giving back to the indigenous populations that we are learning so much from and now have the blessing of being introduced to all of their sacred medicines to heal the malaise that we imposed on ourselves by creating this crazy world that we’ve created. Like to not give back.
Marc-John (27:53)
you know, like feeding more of this disease of extractivism and consumerism. ⁓ So that’s indigenous reciprocity, making sure that for, you know, all the profits that we are making, that we are continuing to take care of the indigenous populations. ⁓ And also as this whole psychedelic renaissance, as you will, if you will, should I say, this whole psychedelic renaissance that we, you know, we might refer to it as.
Marc-John (28:21)
as this continues to expand and expand and expand more and more people learning about psychedelics to continue to give authority and a strong seat at the table of conversation and influence and ⁓ authority to the indigenous populations because they are the original bearers of these medicines, the original forefathers of these medicines. So to have conferences and events and
Marc-John (28:48)
scientific developments and everything with only white men with shirts and ties on, you know, like part of indigenous reciprocity is continuing to keep these voices alive and give them authority as this whole scene continues to expand.
Sam Believ (29:10)
Yeah, this is really important. kind of, I think about it also sometimes. And for me, my way of doing it is to work with an indigenous shaman, to work with his lineage so that obviously if we do make money, part of it goes back to them and they can, you know, pay the indigenous workers that work with them and…
Sam Believ (29:37)
plant more ayahuasca, you know, and do good things. So it’s like that makes sense. And also grounding, grounding myself in that tradition from that point of view, I think as long as you have the connection to the actual lineage and their wisdom, there were the people that kept that traditional life for thousands of years. And we can’t just come and kind of cherry pick it and ignore the fact that we have to be grateful for them. And as you know,
Marc-John (29:38)
you
Marc-John (29:51)
Okay.
Sam Believ (30:06)
Summa Causae and Aini as you described that makes a lot of sense. You talk about us as a society kind of going crazy and disconnecting from ourselves. Can you talk about the opposite of it? How can we live a heart centered life?
Marc-John (30:12)
⁓ This is exactly what I refer to as re-indigenization of self, ⁓ yeah, I think number one, know, simple, like re-indigenization is a little bit intimidating, like, wow, what does that mean? You know, like,
Marc-John (30:41)
Like number one man is ⁓ what gives you joy? know, like what actually lights you up as a person? Where does your joy lie? What gives you joy? What do you feel passionate about? You know, ⁓ and how can you do more of that in your life? How can you cultivate more of that in your life? Like how can you build your entire life around like yourself? You’re doing it, right? I see that you’re doing it. Like you find
Marc-John (31:10)
what you love, gives you joy, what gives you passion. So you’re like, yeah, let’s go to Columbia and let’s make a retreat center. you know, like that’s, that’s, that’s it. That’s heart centered living. it’s, it’s like living from the heart and building your life around what your heart feels happy with, you know, and in this way, cultivating love in your heart for yourself and for the people that you work with and continuing to spread this, this, this love in everything that you do.
Marc-John (31:38)
You build a company. don’t know if you have cleaning staff at the retreat center, you know, like, I don’t know if you have like, like other members of your team, like other team members, apart from the indigenous medicine people that you work with, but you know, it’s, it’s that it’s like, it’s building a team based on this love and appreciation and, know, helping each of your members of staff and each of your team and every single person that contributes to your work. ⁓ Like, how can we help them?
Marc-John (32:07)
to live from the heart as well. How can we help them to be joyful in life? How can we create an environment that makes them truly happy in their heart? That’s ⁓ step one, which we don’t need the big words like re-indigenization and all the other big words. Do what makes you happy and help others to do the same.
Sam Believ (32:33)
That’s great, great advice. And I must say we started about three, a little more than three years ago now. And as the team has grown, you asked, yeah, we have a team, probably 30 plus people now from kitchen workers, cleaners, drivers and security guards and all gardeners. It’s a big team and marketing people and…
Marc-John (32:57)
Okay.
Sam Believ (33:02)
Ceremony team don’t get me started. We have like eight volunteers right now. It’s crazy But as a team has been growing I can I can see how I think I’m like 50 % joy and 50 % pure stress right now so it’s it’s a personal question for me because somebody I can’t I have not been able to find a way that There is not one person or group of people that carry the pain because business is
Marc-John (33:26)
you
Sam Believ (33:32)
you need the business because everyone needs to be paid for to have that controlled and very smooth experience. But somebody will have to take the brute stress of organizational logistics. So, you know, as a business owner yourself, how do you navigate that?
Marc-John (33:48)
Mm.
Marc-John (33:53)
That’s a great question. And I know what my answer is. is building team cohesion and coherence through space holding, through holding space for them, through connecting to their heart and listening to their pain. Well, maybe not even their pain. ⁓ It doesn’t have to be their pain. It can also be their joy. Maybe they’re not even ⁓ experiencing pain. Maybe all they’re experiencing right now is joy, but to be there to receive it.
Marc-John (34:24)
Like, you know, as the business owner to receive their joy or to receive their pain. The key thing is to create an environment where you receive them fully. All of them, you know, like the emotions that they’re going through right now because their granny is ill and maybe might be dying or, you know, their dog ran away a week ago and it’s causing them pain or, know, whatever is moving for them in their life.
Marc-John (34:53)
for us as the business owners to be able to hold space for this. And again, live from the heart and live from love. ⁓ Give them love, our love, our time, our attention and help them to feel valued, seen, cherished. ⁓ I think this is the… That’s how we roll. We maybe don’t have as big a team as you do if you’re saying that you have like…
Marc-John (35:19)
I don’t know, 30 people, we don’t have that big a team, but that’s the principle with which we operate.
Sam Believ (35:28)
Yeah, it’s not easy to, you know, receive other people’s pain. I’ve definitely done it and it’s new for me. You know, it’s not easy to just kind of sit there instead of just kind of wanting to run away. So I’ve been doing it consciously or unconsciously. Medicine itself helps as well to promote that state in the team. So obviously we have that readily available. But let’s say for me,
Sam Believ (35:57)
make it personal as somebody who is carrying the brute amount of that stress and kind of on the verge of burnout what I know you talk about healing from burnout so can you spread some tell us some good knowledge about how to avoid burnout or how to heal from it
Marc-John (36:18)
Yeah, yeah how to heal from burnout Yeah, I identify the why and in fact, you know like I ⁓ I will give you a I’ll give you a free gift as well that you can you can share with the listeners ⁓ it’s exactly that is trauma to triumph it’s called trauma to triumph and it’s all about healing from burnout to really connect with your why again and
Marc-John (36:43)
And I think that is the anchor point, man, for all potential burnout situations. It is, you know, what brings you joy? Where is your passion and your joy lying? ⁓ who can, who is available in your team to outsource the more stressful, more, you know, even if it’s just in the short term, who is available to outsource some of the tasks to some of the things whilst you can recuperate your, your nervous system, identify what in your
Marc-John (37:13)
world in general brings you joy and upliftment and from that place reconnect with your your why. ⁓ That’s kind of a rough overview but I go I guess I go a little bit deeper ⁓ and more extensive into that in the in the free gift which I will send you I can send you the the free gift and you can also share it with the with the audience it’s like a pdf guide that’s exactly about that from trauma to triumph but also also I would say
Marc-John (37:41)
that we as the business owners, if we are leading in this way, we are holding space for a lot of people. And so the big question comes, who’s holding space for us? And that’s why ⁓ business owners, need coaches, we need confidants, we need mentors, we need people that can sit and receive our pain. Because if we’re receiving everybody else from the team’s pain and…
Marc-John (38:09)
Dealing with that stress, we need people that can hold space for us too, right? ⁓ And that journey is like, I don’t think it ever ends, man. Yeah. Does it end, you know, like whilst the world is run on the systems that it’s run on right now and we need to be like producing like a business all the time. That’s just a fact of, you know, the world that we’re currently living in. We all need space held for us.
Sam Believ (38:21)
So.
Marc-John (38:38)
even spaceholders. ⁓ Every leader needs a leader. Every coach needs a coach. Every mentor needs a mentor. Every medicine man needs a medicine man. Right? ⁓
Sam Believ (38:48)
Yeah, yeah, definitely having a coach helped me a lot. for those of you who are listening, if you’re running a business, get a coach. And as you say, you know, yeah, we can, yeah, reach out to Mark. He’s a coach. So, but we still live like we can have
Marc-John (39:01)
I’d be happy to coach you. ⁓
Sam Believ (39:11)
Conscious businesses and hard centered businesses, but we still live in a in the society that is very Capitalistic and we need to obey by certain rules because if we don’t If it doesn’t matter how hard centered your business is When you have no money you go bankrupt and then all your workers lose their jobs So you gotta you gotta obey by those rules and that I think that Dichotomy is very difficult one to manage like running a spiritual business in a non spiritual
Marc-John (39:34)
Okay.
Sam Believ (39:42)
economy is not easy, but still possible. So I’m not using this episode to complain. We’re doing pretty good. And it’s just like, there’s certain difficulties. Yeah, talk to us about coaching. You mentioned being a coach. what is your
Marc-John (39:45)
Right? It’s possible.
Sam Believ (40:10)
methodology of coaching and how does how do plant medicines help you in that
Marc-John (40:17)
Yeah, of course, like I said, I developed the i3 method, know ⁓ intention inception and integration Each ⁓ each phase has you know, four or five different Channels, let’s just say of activity and exercise and skills and tools to be developed and That’s when we are working through like programs that it features psychedelic healing
Marc-John (40:47)
⁓ we run retreats down in Peru and you know, they are eight week programs. So two weeks of preparation, ⁓ 10 days on site in Peru and then five weeks of integration. ⁓ that’s for the psychedelic healing piece, but in terms of, ⁓ coaching, you know, integral performance coaching, ⁓ as you call that in the beginning, you know, you could call it integral performance coaching. That’s what I like to call it because it’s integral.
Marc-John (41:17)
to the performer. It’s allowing the high performer to live in ways that are integral, meaning that every single part of himself or herself is made peace with ⁓ and is integrated so that they live wholesome, in a wholesome way, so that they live as a whole being. ⁓ the way that I do it, so we just, ⁓ we identify all of the areas of a person’s life that are like most alive and most
Marc-John (41:47)
⁓ Either giving them lots of life force or draining them from life force. Whatever is most present in their life, we identify everything that is present in their life. ⁓ We analyze each area that they identify. ⁓ And we give it a little bit of ⁓ a score, if you will. Is it currently good? Is it giving us lots of life force or is draining us of life
Marc-John (42:14)
And if it’s draining us of life force, then what can we do to change it? If anything, right? And from there, ⁓ yeah, together we, based on all of that, we ⁓ work together. Again, it’s thought partnership. I’m partnering with the person in their thought processes and emotional processing so that together, based on all of those areas that we’ve identified, that’s either giving life force or draining life force.
Marc-John (42:42)
the areas that need to change so that it gives us more vitality, gives us more life force, we will use that and create like an outcome statement, which forms, you know, like the light at the end of the tunnel ⁓ for that person. And we co-create that outcome statement. It’s like almost like a mantra, like a script of the life that you desire to be embodying and living. ⁓ And then from there, ⁓
Marc-John (43:11)
we create what you might call a map or a pathway ⁓ identifying like what are the characteristics of this life? What are the characteristics? How do you define it? You know, is it abundant? Is it compassionate? Is it fruitful? Is it fulfilling? All of these words, we map them out. ⁓ And based on that, we then identify clearly, succinctly, precisely.
Marc-John (43:40)
What is it that is standing between where you are right now and being able to say, okay, with conviction, I am a full embodiment of all of this, the outcome statement and everything that defines a life lived as this outcome statement. And then our coaching works on all of these areas to target all of these areas to bring them ⁓ to either get rid of them.
Marc-John (44:10)
and stop doing them and get them out of your life if necessary and possible. And if not possible, but necessary, not possible to get them out of your life, but necessary to change them so that they stop draining your life force ⁓ and start giving you life force, then we focus on how to do that. And that is, I mean, I work with, ⁓ I just got a message, a photo message through from one of my clients, just like.
Marc-John (44:38)
20 minutes before coming on this interview and he was holding a gold medal from the IBJJF European Championship ⁓ in his hand. IBJJF is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Federation. So he’s just been at the European Championships, won gold, one of my clients. ⁓ And I work with other people like, know, CEOs of investment firms in London, CEOs of boutique property development companies.
Marc-John (45:08)
CEOs of online education platforms, also like music production managers as well. have quite an interesting array of different clients and I’m so blessed to be working with clients that are so amazing and so inspirational. I guess the final thing I will say on that is ⁓ everything I have just mentioned to you, everything I’ve just explained to you, it is all laced, completely laced with…
Marc-John (45:37)
ancestral wisdom and indigenous healing practices. So sometimes I’ll find myself with the drum chanting for the client and guiding them through altered states of consciousness, even without medicine psychedelics, you know, helping them if there’s something like, you know, deep in their childhood or something that needs to be looked at and healed. This is also, you know, one of the ways that I, I helped them through this. Because sometimes when we’re running businesses, actually the limitations we come to
Marc-John (46:08)
is like a childhood trauma, you know? Same with politicians and everybody that’s out there leading in the world. Big business, small business, politics, sports, music, we’re all subject to psychology. so, ⁓ yeah, the ancestral healing technologies that I lace through my coaching really helps with these pieces.
Sam Believ (46:33)
Thank you, John. Thank you for explaining it all and thank you for the wisdom you shared in this episode. Before we wrap up, do you want to tell people where they can find you and learn more about you?
Marc-John (46:47)
Sure, yeah. Instagram, my Instagram handle is ⁓ marcjohnbrown. Facebook is facebook.com forward slash ⁓ markjohn.brown. ⁓ Our website is nativewisdomhub.com. I work together with my wife who is representative of the Chanka people of Apurimac in the Peruvian Andes. ⁓
Marc-John (47:12)
And of course I will send you a free gift man. I don’t know if you have show notes where you can include a link to this free gift. I will give it to you. I’ll give it to you for sure. Have a read through it and let ⁓ your audience as well have a read through it. It would be my pleasure to know gift it to you. Yeah.
Sam Believ (47:27)
That was good, Mark. Thank you for that.
Marc-John (47:31)
All right.
Sam Believ (47:32)
Thank you guys, you’ve been listening to Alaska Podcast. As always, we do the whole assembly of and I will see you in the next episode.
Marc-John (47:41)
Thank