In this episode of AyahuascaPodcast.com host Sam Believ has a conversation with Ayla Schafer a renowned medicine musician.
We touch upon subjects of how medicine music is created, how music affects the ceremony, we talk about her hero’s journey, music as tool for healing, the crisis earth is facing and healing yourself first.
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Transcript
Sam Believ (00:03)
Hi guys and welcome to Ayahuasca Podcast as always with you the host Sam Biliyev. Today we have a very special guest Ayla Schaeffer. Ayla is a multilingual singer and songwriter. She’s a song carrier, she’s a ceremonial musician ⁓ and she’s the voice of the earth pretty much. Ayla welcome to the show.
Ayla Schafer (00:08)
Today we have a very special guest, Ayla Schaefer. Ayla is a multilingual singer and songwriter. She’s a song carrier. She’s a ceremonial musician ⁓ and she’s the voice of the earth, very much. Ayla, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me here, Sam. Ayla, well first of all, I’m a big fan of your music and…
Sam Believ (00:29)
I’ll, well, first of all, I’m a big fan of your music and ⁓ we played in the ceremony as well. One of the very first songs I learned to play on a guitar ⁓ was ⁓ the Vuela con el Viento. So ⁓ it’s great to have you on the show. You know, I would like to ⁓ tell the listeners a little bit about you. I know the very few who don’t know you and…
Ayla Schafer (00:35)
one ⁓ of the very first songs I learned to play on the guitar was ⁓ the Vuelacla del Viento. So, great to have you on the show. You know, I would like to tell the listeners a little bit about you, I know that there are very few who don’t know you and ⁓ what brought you…
Sam Believ (00:58)
What brought you ⁓ into the music and most importantly, the ceremonial music?
Ayla Schafer (01:01)
into the music and most importantly ⁓ the ceremonial music. What brought me into music in general? You mean? Well, I grew up in a fairly musical family, not particularly for my parents, but my mother ⁓ always ⁓ encouraged us to be in…
Sam Believ (01:13)
Mm -hmm.
Ayla Schafer (01:31)
spaces that were kind of nourishing musicality. So we learned different instruments and you know like theatre groups, singing theatre groups and choirs and so I feel like what brought me into music was just something that was very natural and was kind of already unfolding since a young age. I always, always sang ⁓ loudly in the home even as a child and the…
Ayla Schafer (02:01)
I started writing my own stuff. My mum bought me a guitar when I was 15 and then that kind of opened up a new chapter of ⁓ bringing the music like much deeper home to myself and beginning to learn from then, beginning to express ⁓ really my own music of my heart and my emotions and my feelings. And this was always something that it was just happening in a very natural way. That’s just what ⁓ my soul needed to do.
Ayla Schafer (02:31)
But there was a big turning point in my life when I went ⁓ traveling to South America for the first time. I think I was about 21. Had this moment in my life of a kind of, ⁓ I would say like one of the first dark nights of my soul, you know, this kind of classic ⁓ moments that we go through as human beings. Some of us many times, some people maybe only, you know, once, there’s no…
Ayla Schafer (03:01)
one way that this can happen. So I kind of went through this time of great ⁓ crisis, it felt like a really big crisis and a death and a crumbling of everything ⁓ around me, within me, which inspired me to go on a kind of quest, a soul quest to ⁓ South America. And what was interesting when I arrived on this journey and the good, I would say the first year of this journey, I ended up being away for two years, the first year of the journey, I…
Ayla Schafer (03:30)
I basically ⁓ like ⁓ quit music. I’m not doing this anymore, you know, for all the different reasons, I’m going to go and just ⁓ go on a soul quest. And I mentioned that because it feels like it was something very important that I kind of really went with this very open, you know, like a blank new page.
Ayla Schafer (03:55)
I kind of close a chapter and open a blank new page. I’m not a musician. I’m not a singer. That’s not what I do. Kind of threw away any identity with that. I needed something needed to be stripped really to a pure place. And then in my journey in, ⁓ I spent those two years in Mexico and Peru. As things often happen when we kind of throw ourselves in a deep trust and faith into ⁓ the unknown.
Ayla Schafer (04:24)
like an adventure like this. Things just unfolded in a very synchronistic, natural, effortless way. You know, I met somebody who led me to this thing and then that led me to this thing. I literally felt like I was drawing a dot to dot picture. You know, I didn’t know what the picture was going to be, but it was very clear, like, I’m here, very clear, go to that dot, very clear, go to that dot. And during that time,
Ayla Schafer (04:54)
I, for the first time in my life, was sitting with people who were singing songs of ⁓ praise and celebration and prayer ⁓ to the earth, to the spirits, to the ancestors, singing traditional songs from ⁓ various ⁓ lineages, you know, there in Mexico. There’s such a meeting place of so many different traditions and the medicine ways and the Native American ways and the traditional ways of the…
Ayla Schafer (05:23)
the Mexica people and the Wicholl people. This was totally new for me, music as being part of ceremony, being in sweat lodges and the sun dance and the vision quest. Eventually, after quite some time, I ended up going to the desert there in Mexico, which was my first experience with any plant medicine, eating a lot of peyote there in the desert.
Ayla Schafer (05:53)
having a… Yeah, I mean, there’s no words really for what can describe what happened for me there. And from there, I had a very clear ⁓ direction to go to Peru and start working with the ayahuasca there. And ended up being six months in the Sacred Valley, just very fully immersed, a lot of medicine, a lot of ceremonies, a lot of people, a lot of confronting myself and…
Ayla Schafer (06:23)
It wasn’t until I was there in those ceremonies that I really started to sing again, actually. So a good year and a half ⁓ of ⁓ being in a kind of void, musical void space and the medicine, that space with the ayahuasca, yeah, it’s like came home deeply to my heart and…
Ayla Schafer (06:48)
Yeah, it’s continued from there, really.
Sam Believ (06:53)
Beautiful, thank you for sharing that. And I think if I’m not mistaken, the crisis, what started your musical crisis was that ⁓ you would sing in like bars or clubs and stuff like this and people would not necessarily be like paying attention to you as a bit of a musician myself. I remember for me it was always strange to understand that you can be like.
Ayla Schafer (06:54)
Thank you for sharing that. I think if I’m not mistaken, the crisis, what started your musical crisis was that ⁓ you would be singing like that.
Ayla Schafer (07:12)
I ⁓ remember ⁓ for me ⁓ it was always strange to understand that people could be like…
Sam Believ (07:21)
just become this background noise and it’s very frustrating. So when you started singing again, have you ever, so I would assume you found yourself singing in the ceremony?
Ayla Schafer (07:25)
Yes. When you started ⁓ singing again, have you ever thought how would you have seen yourself singing in the same moment? A very little bit, you know, very small amount because it was all very new and I definitely spent a good majority of the time on the floor, knocked out. But yeah, there would be moments that, you know, they would open up that space or invite me to sing and…
Ayla Schafer (07:56)
I mean, the grace ⁓ that I would experience in those moments was something I had never ever experienced and could never have imagined. You know, absolute pure grace and light. And what was very significant ⁓ was that I ⁓ mostly was having a very, very rough time with the medicine. Like that’s what needed to happen for me, you know, mostly like churning and churning and a lot of pain, a lot of darkness.
Ayla Schafer (08:27)
Yeah, so I’m gonna put a guitar in my hands ⁓ and I would open my mouth and it was like, ⁓ my spirit kind of ⁓ came back. I would come into alignment in myself. I would come into just very, very profound contact with whatever name we wanna call this ⁓ divinity, this light, this love and…
Ayla Schafer (08:53)
Yeah, just extraordinarily beautiful to feel that.
Sam Believ (08:57)
Yes, singing in the ceremony is a very ⁓ different experience because you get undivided attention and ⁓ as I like to say, I don’t know if you ever experienced it, but the best compliment for ⁓ a medicine musician singing in an ayahuasca ceremony is if people start purging or puking. So ⁓ it’s very different from, let’s say, singing in a bar. So you describe this feeling of…
Ayla Schafer (09:19)
It’s very different from what I would say singing in a bar. So you describe this feeling of ⁓ harmonizing yourself with your own music. So obviously now with all this experience, what do you think happens there ⁓ when you sing and when you sing do you also have an invention as a bit of…
Sam Believ (09:26)
harmonizing yourself with your own music. So obviously now with all this experience, what do you think happens there ⁓ when you sing and ⁓ when you sing, do you also like ⁓ have an intention as a bit of ⁓ the spiritual intention to get people somewhere? What does this process look like for you?
Ayla Schafer (09:43)
spiritual intention to get people somewhere. What did this process look like for you? Well, at the beginning I definitely didn’t have any intention like that. It was a very innocent, just bringing the absolute naked, vulnerable truth of my heart and my soul and my being and…
Ayla Schafer (10:11)
singing from that place, singing that and singing through that and…
Ayla Schafer (10:21)
If I reflect back now, what I, if I have to put it into words, which I’m often quite reluctant, you know, to kind of, ⁓ in some ways it’s like we can never really understand these mysteries, the many mysteries. And I do feel like music and singing is something very mysterious and very potent and ⁓ powerful and magical and very real.
Ayla Schafer (10:52)
And there’s so many ways of explaining it and so many ways of interpreting it. But one thing that comes to me is ⁓ I feel what I ⁓ probably was always doing when I was singing, even very subconsciously. And now, as I’m older and, you know, more have walked much more of my pathway, I feel like I can do it more consciously. But this is, it’s really just like singing, singing the love that.
Ayla Schafer (11:21)
is my spirit, like ⁓ radiating that, emanating that, channeling that and offering ⁓ the love of my heart through my voice. And I include within love, I include the grief and the rawness and the vulnerability. You know, I don’t just mean like ⁓ love is all beautiful and happy and blissful. Like that’s, those are aspects of that, but…
Ayla Schafer (11:51)
Love is our heart, the fullness and the rawness and ⁓ the depth of who we are. ⁓ And I guess, from the people who sit and who have sat and serenaded and received ⁓ from me, that is touching a place in their hearts because it’s the language of the heart. My heart is speaking to the rawness. The rawness of my heart is speaking to the rawness.
Ayla Schafer (12:21)
of their heart and ⁓ I also truly believe our heart is anyway just a gateway ⁓ to the much greater that is us and beyond us. So through our heart the spirit speaks and the earth speaks and the ancestors speak like this is our this is a great gateway to ⁓ the greater ⁓ of this existence.
Sam Believ (12:50)
that’s a great way to describe it. I like how you talk about those things. I can feel myself calming down as well. So it’s beautiful. Do you remember the first medicine song that you written? Do you remember when your music kind of went from just being music and went to being more of a ceremony and more of a medicine music? Was there a shift or was it like a gradual ⁓ transition?
Ayla Schafer (13:22)
I would say both. It was a shift and it also was gradual. Like when I came back from this journey, this two -year journey, the collection of songs that I wrote during that time were like, I feel like they were bridge, it was like bridge songs, if that makes sense. So it wasn’t that I went suddenly from this kind of other phase that I’d been in and suddenly was in this ⁓ medicine music.
Ayla Schafer (13:52)
chapter or something. There were these songs that were coming through that were like little bit of both somehow. And then I think the first song ⁓ might have been Onshimaka. I can’t remember if it was that of Vuelo con el Viento, but basically those two songs were the first two songs that were very distinctly. No, I’m wrong. Sorry, I’m totally wrong. It was neither of those. It was I Call You.
Ayla Schafer (14:18)
And then those two songs came, but those three songs came all around the same time and it was quite distinctly different. And when I wrote I Call You, I remember quite clearly ⁓ giving myself permission to ⁓ uncensor ⁓ myself. I’d kind of realised that ⁓ a part of me had ⁓ been like holding back or still, ⁓ you know, saying…
Ayla Schafer (14:46)
saying things and expressing in a way that was safe, culturally safe basically. Like, ⁓ I’ll still be more or less accepted if I sing about this. And then I wrote I Call You, which is a song, an invocation to ⁓ my ancestors and to many different spirits, to animals, to guides, to the forces of creation. And it was post -ceremony, I think it was the morning after ceremony, and I really was like…
Ayla Schafer (15:17)
I set myself free. I’m just going to sing ⁓ absolutely what is coming through from my prayer and my heart. And that was the shift. That was a clear shift.
Sam Believ (15:31)
It’s exactly bringing me to my next question. Some people describe medicine musicians or musicians in generally, they describe this process of almost…
Ayla Schafer (15:32)
It’s exactly bringing me to my next question. Some people describe in medicine musicians or musicians in general, they describe this process of almost ⁓ universal, if I should say, writing songs through them as if some song just comes to them and it just lingers in your mind and you almost can’t help but write it.
Sam Believ (15:45)
the universe, the Pachamama writing songs through them as if some song just comes to them and it just lingers in your mind and you almost can’t help but write it, you know, synchronistically it’s just kind of pushed upon you. So in a way, ⁓ what do you think, what role does the plant medicine play in your journey as ⁓ a songwriter?
Ayla Schafer (15:56)
synchronistically.
Sam Believ (16:11)
And can you maybe describe this process to people? Like how can a music be, ⁓ how is the music born in you and what role the plant medicines play in that?
Ayla Schafer (16:25)
The answer feels really very big because the role that the plant medicines have played for ⁓ me, you know, specifically in my musical journey, I can’t separate my musical journey from like my human ⁓ soul journey. It’s like, it is the same journey. So really, what actually has been…
Ayla Schafer (16:52)
The most relevant is that the plant medicines have been ⁓ great teachers and guides and support for going on ⁓ very, very deep ⁓ healing experiences with myself of understanding, seeing myself in the ⁓ powerful depths that the medicines help us to go.
Ayla Schafer (17:22)
help us to access things that have been so deeply buried, confronting our trauma and ⁓ releasing and crying and ⁓ feeling and seeing and growing. Anyone who has sat with the plant medicines will know what I’m speaking about. There’s ⁓ no words for the depths to which we are taken on a very personal, human, emotional…
Ayla Schafer (17:52)
you know, trauma healing level. And then there is the whole realms of ⁓ helping us to access ⁓ and remember that we are ⁓ a spirit part of a world that is spirit. And the realms that I’ve been to, the plant medicine, they opened up so much of that for me.
Ayla Schafer (18:20)
you know, to be able to feel the spirits and speak with them and receive messages and look at this creation and see really what it is like. Wow, it’s absolute mysterious miracle where everything is living and breathing and talking everything, you know, the air, the plants, the water, the sky, the trees, like this is what is real. They really.
Ayla Schafer (18:50)
are helping us to see and remember and ⁓ be in communication with, ⁓ to be speaking ⁓ and receiving the language of the spirit world. So all of the, you know, just on a very personal level, the journeys that I’ve been through, the healing that I’ve been through, the way that ⁓ the world, the truth of this reality has been revealed to me by the plant medicines, all of that,
Ayla Schafer (19:20)
has then become that which I ⁓ am singing. It comes through my music indirectly in that sense because where I sing from is really my experience and where I’m at and my prayers. And this is another aspect of being in ceremony, being with the plant medicines, but also the ceremony that comes with that, the language, the way of being ⁓ in prayer together. And…
Ayla Schafer (19:50)
being in a in a
Ayla Schafer (19:54)
a state of deep reverence and honour and respect ⁓ for all of life, which is kind of very much the language of being in the ceremonies that you can’t not be in that. I keep using the word language, I guess, because…
Ayla Schafer (20:15)
I feel like a lot of it is about the conversation that we’re having, whether it’s the conversation we’re having with the plants or with the conversation with ourselves or the conversation with the earth or the conversation with the spirits. And the conversation isn’t just a language of words, it’s really like a language of deep feeling and intuition and heightened senses. So the aspect of prayer…
Ayla Schafer (20:45)
has ⁓ had a massive impact on how, in which form my songs are taking, you know, basically really allowing myself to pray, which most of us growing up in the conventional world we lived in, we live in, I came from a non -religious family, like I had no sense of ⁓ prayer.
Ayla Schafer (21:11)
or speaking to forces other than myself or engaging in a sacred conversation, communication. So yeah, I hope that answers the question in a kind of… Yeah.
Sam Believ (21:25)
It does, yeah, it absolutely does. You mentioned the word language. I think music is the universal language, right? It can be understood by anyone and nature also ⁓ plays music and I can hear birds singing right now around me as well. It’s very musical.
Sam Believ (21:46)
And I know you speaking of language from a human term, you write songs in English and in Spanish. And it’s interesting because I noticed that for me personally, the language I use to communicate with plants ⁓ is Spanish because this is how I learned it.
Sam Believ (22:04)
here in Colombia, so if I wanna work with tobacco, I speak to it in Spanish, abuelo, tabaco, and stuff like that. So how does ⁓ that come to you, and how do you choose the language in which to express a certain creative idea?
Ayla Schafer (22:12)
So how does that come to you? How do you choose the language in which to express a certain creative?
Ayla Schafer (22:26)
That’s a good question. It’s not really very clear to me how that happens. It just, you know, I guess it would be similar. Like how do you choose the chords that you play on the song? How do you choose the rhythm? How do you choose how fast it is? How do you choose the words? Like it’s go, there is an impulse. There is a feeling. There is something moving in the spirit and in the heart that is. ⁓
Ayla Schafer (22:55)
is wants to be expressed and that feeling needs to kind of be given a form that ⁓ is the feeling, if that makes sense. You know, the music is the form of whatever that impulse is, where it’s coming from, that feeling, that prayer, that voice. And I guess I’d just like to add, I actually now started singing in proto -Celtic, which is the oldest.
Ayla Schafer (23:23)
Recorded version of the Celtic language. It’s not a spoken language anymore ⁓ and It’s not a complete language anymore and the Celtic ancestors would have spoken this about four thousand years ago And in the chapter of my life that I’m in right now I’m mostly writing in proto Celtic and it’s just ⁓ it just feels right It just feels that that is in resonance with what I’m experiencing inside of myself. So that would be the same, you know
Ayla Schafer (23:52)
when it’s a Spanish song or when it’s an English song, there is somehow a resonance that simply feels, just simply feels right.
Sam Believ (24:01)
Can you maybe ⁓ sing a short verse in proto -galactic just so we know how it sounds like? ⁓
Ayla Schafer (24:11)
A short verse in Proto -Celtic, let me think.
Ayla Schafer (24:18)
Okay.
Sam Believ (24:40)
Beautiful. I did manage to get you to sing, so finally.
Ayla Schafer (24:44)
You tricked me into doing it.
Sam Believ (24:48)
Yeah, I tricked you into it. ⁓ You know, this is beautiful. Thank you for sharing it. And my sister lives in Ireland and she after coming to experience ayahuasca here at Lawara, she got very inspired in the shamanic journey and she’s doing the dramic and the Celtic tradition and talking to the trees. So yeah, I visited her a couple of times and it sounds, you know, ⁓ Irish, Celtic as well, Gaelic.
Ayla Schafer (25:13)
Irish, Celtic as well, Gaelic, sounds a bit like that. And there was this deep ⁓ Shamanistic tradition in…
Sam Believ (25:17)
sounds a bit like that and there was this deep shaman shaman shamanistic tradition in you know British Isles and the Celts they they also had their own plant medicine I believe it was the Amanita muscaria right I don’t know if you if you if you just channel it through yourself or maybe there is some kind of tradition you connecting with or ⁓ rediscovering something how does it feel for you?
Ayla Schafer (25:28)
Well ⁓ sadly the traditions have been for the most part destroyed ⁓ by what has happened.
Ayla Schafer (25:56)
across Europe and Ireland and England and Scotland, you know, the same stories really, like religion, colonisation, invasion, destruction, witch hunts, you know, they, sadly, those forces…
Ayla Schafer (26:13)
that have ravaged the European lands. They did do a very, very, very good job at pretty much destroying the roots of the traditions. Ireland has got a lot more intact than England. I don’t know, I don’t have Irish ancestry, so it’s not something that I have followed much, but I have many friends who are kind of also following ⁓ the threads of the Celtic pathways in Ireland. It’s much more alive. I think they lost.
Ayla Schafer (26:43)
less, but they still lost a lot. And in terms of the ceremonies of the plant medicines, it wasn’t just the aminata, it was also the ⁓ smaller mushroom. I think people maybe call it the Liberty Capple, there’s various names. But mushrooms, basically the psychedelic mushrooms, are the indigenous medicines of ⁓
Ayla Schafer (27:11)
certainly England and Wales and Scotland and I imagine Ireland. But the traditions, the clarity and the definition of the traditions ⁓ that held them and how ceremonies would have been held and what were the songs and what was the protocol. This, as far as I’m aware, and I say that because I have the limits to what I really know, as far as I’m aware, people are…
Ayla Schafer (27:40)
having to re -envision or receive again exactly what that looked like. And I haven’t so far in my life come into contact with somebody that it felt really resonant for me to sit with them with the mushrooms in a ceremonial way. My journey and my ancestors are calling me to connect through the medicine of the land and the spirit that is so alive and of…
Ayla Schafer (28:08)
of the stones and the sacred sites and the mushrooms are calling me ⁓ very clearly. But ⁓ it’s unfolding slowly and at the moment it’s a very solitary ⁓ process where I feel like I am being asked to remember from within myself and from the land, from being in relationship with the land.
Ayla Schafer (28:38)
and kind of awakening the memory of my bones. I don’t have the presence of the teachers and the elders that I ⁓ deeply long for, of which there certainly is ⁓ more presence of that in the Americas.
Sam Believ (28:55)
This is, it is very sad, right, that ⁓ some traditions been destroyed and they will never, will never be able to like listen to their Icaros or their chants and never know how they used to do the ceremony. But in a way it is beautiful with plant medicines that the knowledge is there. And sometimes I remember when I started my…
Sam Believ (29:20)
journey with med medicines the the Titus here in Colombia they call them Titus but normally you would say shamans they they told me that the the medicine is the ultimate teacher it will show you exactly how you need to do your stuff so some some people might ⁓ have their own sort of input but the medicine will show you how to do it right so if you I’m assuming if you were to work with
Sam Believ (29:47)
the traditional plant medicines in the place where they were with this intention. They will once again teach us how to ⁓ do it properly and recover those traditions. The most fascinating story I’ve heard about it is about the medicine called Wilka and the shaman that was giving us Wilka told us that they would drink San Pedro in those ancient megalithic sites ⁓ and as they were drinking San Pedro all of a sudden San Pedro gave them ability to
Sam Believ (30:17)
understand the signs on the stones and they through that they were able to recover this medicine of Wilke which I don’t know if it’s a true story but it’s fascinating imagine like rediscovering those ancient traditions that’s that’s really ⁓ really cool and we’re so lucky to to have the traditions that have survived like the peyote tradition ⁓ the San Pedro tradition the ayahuasca tradition
Ayla Schafer (30:17)
and the signs on the stones and they were able to recover this medicine of Rukka, which I don’t know if it’s a true story, but it’s fascinating, like rediscovering those ancient traditions that’s…
Ayla Schafer (30:36)
of art like the Ote tradition, the San Pedro tradition, the Ayahuasca tradition, and even mushrooms, you know, in some parts of Mexico. I’m really surprised that your medicine journey started in Mexico, but…
Sam Believ (30:43)
and even mushrooms you know in some parts of Mexico and I’m really surprised that ⁓ your medicine journey started in Mexico but you’re only now kind of getting into the the mushroom side of things so let’s talk about that what is what is your favorite way to what are your favorite plant medicines and why and what
Ayla Schafer (30:55)
⁓ So ⁓ let’s talk about that. What ⁓ is your favorite ⁓ way to, what are your favorite fun medicines and why?
Sam Believ (31:08)
You mentioned that ayahuasca is very, your ayahuasca experiences are very profound. What about other plant medicines or ⁓ yeah, just talk to us a little bit about that.
Ayla Schafer (31:22)
In some ways I don’t really feel like I have a favorite. It’s like ⁓ I feel that I receive different ⁓ things from different medicines. Like quite literally, each medicine is a different medicine for my being and my healing and my journey. Like the gifts, the qualities are…
Ayla Schafer (31:52)
are different and there may be certain moments where I feel ⁓ that a certain quality is more needed than another quality. The two medicines that really I’ve worked the most with is the Peyotein and Ayahuasca and I really, I love them both deeply. It’s a bit like, you know, someone saying like, who do you love more in your family? You know, you’d be like, well, ⁓ it’s not really about like…
Ayla Schafer (32:20)
which one is my favorite, like I love them all, but yet the relationship with each is so totally, totally different. And…
Ayla Schafer (32:33)
Yeah, you know, I think of ayahuasca like my mother, like it’s the feminine quality. Like if I, if I, when I in my imagination connect with that, I kind of feel like embraced. You know, I can curl up in my deep vulnerability and be safe and be ⁓ embraced to go really deep into ⁓ the things that I need to meet in myself, which has been a lot, a lot of pain and a lot of grief and a lot of trauma.
Ayla Schafer (33:03)
whereas with the peyote it’s been ⁓ more upright and more open and out and meeting my strength and aligning myself. And of course what also makes a massive difference ⁓ is the tradition that the ceremony is being held in. And this is kind of…
Ayla Schafer (33:27)
almost as important as the medicine itself can make such a big difference. You know, say if you’re sitting in the ceremony like Shopeebo tradition or even in Columbia, it’s quite like in the dark, a lot of silence and, ⁓ you know, quiet and not so much movement compared to if you sit with the Yawanawa where it’s like not silent for a second and it’s so much joy and so much celebration and dancing.
Ayla Schafer (33:58)
that makes a huge difference to the experience that ⁓ is going to be had. So really, there’s the medicine and then there’s the tradition and then they kind of merge and ⁓ define the experience together. And I would say my pathway has been also navigating a lot of like, which tradition am I am I called to, you know, the songs and the way and the route, the route of that the teachings that come with the tradition and what I’m learning from.
Ayla Schafer (34:29)
from that sacred ancient knowledge. ⁓ And now I am kind of returning to my ⁓ own heritage and ⁓ feeling this sense of like I’ve spent so much, so many years exploring with other traditions which have given me so much and now I’m kind of being like called back home to my own.
Ayla Schafer (34:58)
hearth fire, you know, like the fire of my home land where my ancestors come from, where my the memory is held in my blood and my bones and what comes with that is a clear calling like Isla the Mushrooms, you need to work with the mushroom, it’s time now to ⁓ to go there and yeah like you said I’m surprised that it you know for so many years.
Ayla Schafer (35:25)
you’ve been working with medicines for years and it’s only just now coming and I go like, yeah, I’m also surprised but it’s almost like I had to learn all that I learned from these other traditions to be in the place where I am now which is probably more capable of…
Ayla Schafer (35:43)
holding that for myself because that’s kind of what’s needed with a medicine where there isn’t a clear ⁓ instruction and a clear direction anyway, not from the human world at the moment.
Sam Believ (35:58)
Yeah, it’s very interesting how, ⁓ you know, synchronistically, it just all happens in the perfect way. And ⁓ I’ve been, I’ve personally been feeling that in my work, I’ve been, I’ve been doing a lot of work myself, but every big step and every big decision.
Sam Believ (36:18)
was some kind of synchronistic event where it was like you go this way you go this way and it I never for example I never set out to start an ayahuasca retreat I was just I just wanted to ⁓ maybe ⁓ drink medicine from home and then it just became became this this big thing you talk about different traditions I don’t know have you ever heard about ⁓ inga tradition of ⁓ like Colombian jahey ayahuasca tradition have you heard about it?
Ayla Schafer (36:48)
Well, I did spend some time in Colombia, sitting with some titers. It’s not something that I know that I experienced a huge amount with, but yeah, I think I’ve had a glimpse.
Sam Believ (37:04)
So in Columbia, there are five tribes, I believe, that work with Awoska traditionally, Kofan, Inga, Siona, Kamsat, and I always forget one. But the Inga is a very musical tradition, at least the titles, the lineage I work with.
Sam Believ (37:26)
and the music starts one hour after the medicine is served and almost doesn’t end till the end of the ceremony with just short breaks and the music starts slowly with quiet songs where you know some of your music would fit perfectly and I have played your music as well ⁓ in our ceremonies many times ⁓ and then it starts to build and build and I think it ends up you described this yeah yeah yeah yeah one now what yeah
Ayla Schafer (37:55)
Yawanawa tradition where it’s more joyous so we kind of have the whole spectrum kind of more introspective in the beginning and then it kind of builds up and then it ends up in a celebration style thing.
Sam Believ (37:56)
Yawanawa tradition where it’s more joyous so we kind of have the whole spectrum kind of bit ⁓ more introspective in the beginning and then it kind of builds up and then it ends up in a celebration style thing. But I would like to talk to you about ⁓ what is the…
Sam Believ (38:17)
You yourself personally in being in a ceremony where there is music involved, the Icaros, what do you feel is the role of the medicine music or the role of Icaros or chants in the ⁓ process? I would like to hear your opinion. Obviously, I would like to share mine afterwards as well.
Ayla Schafer (38:33)
or chance in the process, I would like to hear your opinion on this. I would like to share my opinion. I’m curious to hear what you will say.
Ayla Schafer (38:49)
Yeah, I guess I can ⁓ speak from like how it’s felt for me and speak from a place of receiving because I feel like those who are singing the songs or, you know, singing very specific Icaros, very specific moments, they will be able to speak about it in a way that’s ⁓ very specific.
Ayla Schafer (39:18)
to their understanding and very specific to their intention. So from my experience of really receiving, it’s like the music is, it’s like the music is the river that is carrying me. And you know, sometimes it’s really directing ⁓ in a very subtle way, like the river has a flow and it has a direction.
Ayla Schafer (39:47)
And within the river, you know, there is a freedom to how we respond to the water and whether we want to try and swim upstream or whether we want to try and ⁓ splash or, you know, whether we’re floating or whether we’re drowning. Like, the music isn’t an invincible force that can guarantee something to happen, but it definitely has.
Ayla Schafer (40:09)
has an influence. I have often felt it like a life, especially when I’m having a hard time, like, just follow the music, just follow the music, I learn you’ll be okay. It really is that experience. I follow the music, it’s okay. And I guess what I mean by okay is I’m not drowning.
Ayla Schafer (40:33)
like it holds me afloat, it helps me to remain connected to myself and connected to whatever forces are being invoked by the music in that moment. And that’s very specific to what is being shared. What healing forces is it calling? What spirits is it calling to? What is the intention of that song? Is it a healing song? Is it a celebration song? Is it for the ancestors? Is it specifically for the person who’s being sung to? And this is where there is this,
Ayla Schafer (41:03)
absolute magic. It’s a tool. It’s a very, very specific tool that can go in and, you know, I’ve heard people speak about how it can literally go into our DNA and ⁓ be working on us and working in the energy lines of our body and working with our trauma and our nervous system and communicating with our ancestors and speaking with the earth. And it’s a language of
Ayla Schafer (41:30)
Like you said, it’s a universal language and quite literally ⁓ universal language, like not just, yeah, every single human being makes music, but it’s like, it is the language of the universe. It is the language of everything we see. And that’s quite powerful to acknowledge. Okay, if all of this is, you know, like I’ve heard ⁓ the Shipibo they speak about.
Ayla Schafer (41:56)
everything is made of song and they can read the song and everything and that’s what their beautiful drawings, their embroidered, it’s like the Ikaros in form, they literally can read it. And so ⁓ if that, if everything is form and everything can be read and everything can be sung, and I am also exactly the same, if somebody who knows what they’re doing is singing to…
Ayla Schafer (42:25)
the song lines of my own being and working with that very carefully and intentionally, this is something very powerful and something incredibly ⁓ mysterious. So I’m curious what you will say.
Sam Believ (42:39)
soon.
Sam Believ (42:41)
It’s a beautiful explanation. Yeah, what you mentioned is like music is vibration as well, right? And everything is vibration. Our atoms is literally vibration. So, but what I was going to say is exactly what you mentioned is a lifeline. It’s like this, no matter how deep you are in your process, you can have your eyes closed and crawled in the corner of the medicine house and going through the deepest, hardest thing you’ve ever been through. The music will always be there as a reminder.
Sam Believ (43:11)
that you are safe and there is a team of people here and it’s a controlled space and everything is going to be okay. But another role that I notice music plays is somehow synchronistically people keep telling in the word circles after the ceremony that…
Sam Believ (43:29)
it’s this word they said abuelo and I thought about my grandfather and it helps them to like take them on the path to unravel their specific process and it’s always synchronistically people keep saying the music was exactly perfect for me as it was as if you were singing just for me and it was it was guiding me in exactly where I needed to go so and and I’m curious if it’s if it’s really that perfect or maybe there’s this teamwork between
Ayla Schafer (43:30)
this word, if they said abuelo and I thought about my grandfather and it helps them to like take them on a path to unravel their specific process. And it’s always synchronistically people keep saying the music was exactly perfect for me. It was as if you were singing just for me and it was guiding me in exactly where I needed to go. And I’m curious if it’s really that perfect or maybe there’s this deep word between.
Sam Believ (43:58)
the medicine and the music where ⁓ your conscious catches exactly the words you want to catch. And ⁓ yeah, I have no complete understanding of it. But the music to me ⁓ seems to be a huge part of the healing ⁓ because it also sometimes ⁓ when you go to this negative place, it kind of just brings you back to positive. You know, it’s like just music is such a
Sam Believ (44:27)
positive thing, such a beautiful thing that it just ⁓ doesn’t let you go too dark or to, you know, to an unproductive negative place, so to speak. I don’t know if you have anything to add to that.
Ayla Schafer (44:32)
⁓ I ⁓ don’t know if you have anything to add.
Ayla Schafer (44:48)
No, other than yes. Yes, I agree.
Sam Believ (44:51)
And I remember in my first ever ayahuasca ceremony, I could, I don’t think it ever happened to me before, but I would.
Sam Believ (45:00)
I would close my eyes and I could ⁓ see the music. So not hear them like I would hear it, but I could see the music. So my, ⁓ my psychedelic visions were dancing together with the music, kind of like, you know, this old windows media player where, yeah, it’s, it was, it was so bizarre. I don’t know if it happens to you a lot or like what, what even is like ⁓ the blurry line between different senses and
Ayla Schafer (45:06)
I could hear it, but I could see the music. So my psychedelic visions were dancing together with music. Kind of like ⁓ this old Windows media player where, yeah, it’s so bizarre. I don’t know if it happens to you a lot, but what if in these, like…
Sam Believ (45:28)
Yeah, I’m getting in the deep waters here with all this. The realizations are coming to me about the music, the vibration. ⁓ Yeah, I’m done. I’m done speaking.
Ayla Schafer (45:44)
Hehehehe.
Sam Believ (45:46)
What ⁓ inspires you, for example, as a creator, where do you find your inspiration?
Ayla Schafer (46:05)
I really find the inspiration from ⁓ my experience really, my experience as a human being ⁓ in relationship with ⁓ life and the spirit of life.
Ayla Schafer (46:26)
And ⁓ I really value my human experience. There can be ⁓ some ⁓ spiritual approaches or pathways can place ⁓ more emphasis on kind of leaving behind like the humanness, the emotions and the story and the process. But for me, this is really rich.
Ayla Schafer (46:56)
fertile ⁓ soil and my human experience.
Ayla Schafer (47:05)
is that which is actually ⁓ like ⁓ creating the creativity because it’s because it’s my human experience which is in relationship ⁓ with with life and with the ancestors and with the land and with the spirits it is from being in relationship me and this ⁓ and myself you know being in relationship with myself even ⁓ that is this rich
Ayla Schafer (47:35)
fertile soil from where the creativity in the songs ⁓ are growing from. And certainly as I ⁓ have moved along my journey, like at the beginning, it was much more, it basically was all only about my human experience because I didn’t have a sense of the sacred or prayer or spirit or. ⁓
Ayla Schafer (48:02)
the earth as a living being, that didn’t really exist. So it was very ⁓ much about that. And now I feel it’s much more about this dance and this conversation and ⁓ me speaking with the earth and ⁓ asking for guidance and speaking to the spirit and coming with my prayer and my rawness and my vulnerability ⁓ and ⁓ my challenges and asking for help and…
Ayla Schafer (48:31)
offering gratitude and ⁓ invoking that which I am calling to be felt in the moment. And, you know, I go, I definitely go through, ⁓ like,
Ayla Schafer (48:46)
chapters or phases where a certain aspect is more relevant. For me right now, it’s really all about the ancestors. It’s like I’m totally on that path. Like the spirit of the land and the ancestors I think have always been, well not always, you know, since the ⁓ shift moment of my life and my music. The spirit of the earth ⁓ and the ancestors have been quite constant.
Ayla Schafer (49:15)
seems, but the creativity is being defined by the experience that I’m having ⁓ as a human being here in human form, living this life in this ⁓ pretty crazy world.
Sam Believ (49:31)
Speaking of Earth, I know you’re very passionate about ⁓ the global events and sort of, you know, people like you who ⁓ talk about love and harmony and try to push through your songs and through your work, push the world towards more love and more connection with the Earth. But as you said, there are forces, the negative forces, sort of that.
Sam Believ (49:59)
that you know arguably you can say are kind of winning right now what do you ⁓ what do you
Sam Believ (50:08)
What do you think we could do through the music and through the plant medicine to maybe ⁓ help the world be less sick?
Ayla Schafer (50:22)
Well, the most ⁓ obvious thing that comes is like, when we heal, the world becomes less sick. Like, just as simple as that. Like we are, we are part of a great organism. You know, the earth and all beings who live here, like we are part of a one.
Ayla Schafer (50:44)
one living organism altogether and each one of us is a cell part of a one big body and for every cell that heals well that body is going to slowly slowly slowly become more healthy and less sick and of course it can be very easy to be like I’m just one human being and it’s also very easy to slip into this kind of hyper individualized
Ayla Schafer (51:13)
mentality in terms of like, it’s all about me and it’s all about my healing. And therefore I can just like shut out the rest of the world and the suffering of other people because ⁓ as long as I’m healing, I’m doing my part. Like, there is a truth to this. And there is a kind of, you know, that I feel there’s a
Ayla Schafer (51:36)
I feel like there is an extension, our healing by its nature begins to extend beyond ourself because I feel that from my experience, like the deeper I heal, the more I begin to understand how profoundly ⁓ connected everything is because I’m coming into a state of deeper connection with myself, which I feel like a lot of…
Ayla Schafer (52:02)
the trauma and the things that need healing is this kind of fractured ⁓ connection, like fractured state of our fractured natural state. And ⁓ by healing and kind of returning to a sense of wholeness and regulating ourself and letting go of what that means, which needs to be let go of and coming into a state of ⁓ health ⁓ as an individual.
Ayla Schafer (52:33)
I believe it’s natural that we begin to go like, ⁓ now, you know, like now I’m feeling a bit better. I can begin to go like, ⁓ I’m not ⁓ alone here. I’m part of ⁓ a great web of life, which I’m just one tiny little ⁓ strand on.
Ayla Schafer (52:54)
And actually humanity itself is just one little strand ⁓ within the great web of life. Like I am part of this huge web where everything is interconnected in ways that I probably can never even fully grasp. And actually it’s a total illusion that we are separate from one another, that we are separate from the earth, that we are separate from the spirit world. So ⁓ I feel…
Ayla Schafer (53:23)
deep, true healing ⁓ will naturally ⁓ bring us out of this state of kind of hyper individualized, very capitalistic ⁓ healing mindset, which we do see a lot of, you know, that is just natural in the world that we live in. There is a lot of emphasis on that, but people ⁓ naturally begin to open their eyes more and more and wake up to a greater truth.
Ayla Schafer (53:53)
And then we begin to really work together, you know, and then we begin to understand that ⁓ there’s no such thing as my healing when I live in such a broken world. Like there’s no such thing as reaching a destination of me being totally fine and living in a broken world. Like my healing is our healing and is their healing and your healing is my healing. And the more that we understand that, the stronger we become, the more powerful we become, the more of a…
Ayla Schafer (54:21)
of a counter force to the predatory forces, which, like you say, kind of look like they’re winning at the moment. And ⁓ yes, we must really do everything we can to.
Ayla Schafer (54:32)
be ⁓ the ⁓ energy that is needed in this world as the counter force to the dark forces. Whatever we want to call that or however we want to understand that, I don’t really even get it. But…
Ayla Schafer (54:52)
I do believe starting with ourselves ⁓ is incredibly powerful and following that, trusting that, being ⁓ committed and devoted ⁓ to continuing, continuing, continuing ⁓ will ⁓ create ripples and will hold hands with others and will unite us as…
Ayla Schafer (55:18)
humanity and will include all beings and will include the darkness and the suffering of people whose lives have nothing to do with us, which isn’t true because it has everything to do with us. We are all related and this is what we all hear many traditions will speak about this truth. We are connected to one another. We are connected to everything. We are not separate. We are related and everything that’s happening to the earth and
Ayla Schafer (55:47)
to all peoples on this earth is also happening to us. But likewise, everything that’s happening to us ⁓ is also happening for the bigger. So we are a microcosm of the macrocosm. ⁓ And it can be very empowering to acknowledge ⁓ our individual part within this great time that we’re in, this great turning, this great healing of humanity. And really, where does all the darkness come from?
Ayla Schafer (56:18)
I don’t personally believe in evil. I don’t buy into that story or that doesn’t resonate for me, I put it like that. I don’t believe there are evil forces. I don’t believe there are evil people. I just believe that there’s pain and there’s trauma that creates disconnection and that creates ⁓ closed hearts and broken hearts and ⁓ enables people to treat one another the way that…
Ayla Schafer (56:46)
we see happening, you know, within, within people’s homes and within nations being at war and also enables us to treat the earth in the way that we do like we can only do that because we’re so desperately disconnected and so wounded, the wound of separation. So by healing that wound, one heart at a time, one life at time, and coming home, reclaiming our place within this sacred web of life and reclaiming our place as…
Ayla Schafer (57:16)
as children of this incredible miracle, children of the earth, ⁓ living with love and devotion. This is what is needed.
Sam Believ (57:25)
Yeah, that’s very beautiful. Thank you so much. Hurt people hurt people and I do agree with you that there are no bad people necessarily, but there are people that are just not good at the moment. And I think that ⁓ with the beautiful tools that we have now like plant medicines, we can maybe change that a little bit. I definitely believe in it. I’ve been in many of an argument.
Sam Believ (57:53)
with my optimistic approach but I dream of the world where ⁓ everyone has had ayahuasca and everyone has done yoga and meditation and everyone is ⁓ listening to maybe your music instead of ⁓ gangster rap and stuff like that. But I think yeah, we live in ⁓ such challenging times but we have better tools than our ancestors ever before. And…
Ayla Schafer (58:05)
⁓ Thanks ⁓ for watching.
Sam Believ (58:23)
Yeah, I love what you said about the fact that.
Sam Believ (58:27)
we have so many people coming to lawyre and they’re they’re they’re sick physically because they’re so stressed about the wars or about the elections or something like that and in reality it’s like yeah just heal yourself first heal yourself first and get the best version of yourself and then start radiating radiating that and maybe help somebody but don’t take on those huge challenges that maybe you not necessarily can solve and don’t get overwhelmed and just burnt out because i can imagine a good person
Sam Believ (58:57)
that is so upset about some ⁓ negative event that’s happening in the world and then now that good person, that loving caring person is now banning their friends on Facebook ⁓ which is not necessarily an act of love right so it’s like ⁓ yeah like clean your own room first and then then go ahead and try to change the world so I think that’s a very wise and very balanced approach from you and I
Sam Believ (59:25)
salute you for those words. ⁓
Ayla Schafer (59:27)
Well, I would like to say that I really have been learning this over the past few months. Like those words come from my experience of having been very intensely pulled into the horrors of the world, feeling ⁓ that pain so deeply in my heart. It’s always been, ever since a young child, it’s so natural. My sense of empathy and compassion goes so deep. You know, I see, if I see like a…
Ayla Schafer (59:54)
⁓ wounded bird on the street it’s like it goes so deeply into me so if I see the horrors of the world it’s it’s I can’t not feel it incredibly deeply and I ⁓ I have had the experience of what what good am I
Ayla Schafer (60:15)
to myself, to my family or to the world if I’m in a state of despair, distress, emotional dysregulation, overwhelm, confusion, fear, like how am I serving the healing of humanity ⁓ if I’m in those states? Because I think that…
Ayla Schafer (60:39)
that is what is needed for the world to heal, which basically, you know, like, we have to not look away. That’s what my heart has been saying. Like, I have to witness this. I cannot turn away. This needs to be seen. How will this ever go away and change unless we see it ⁓ and stand up ⁓ for the earth, stand up for humanity, stand up for that which very rightly does need standing up for that is true. But it doesn’t work when
Ayla Schafer (61:09)
we ⁓ are ⁓ collapsing ⁓ and when we are not shining and when we’re not in love and kindness and dignity and respect and in a state of grace in ourself, if we’re not radiating our light, we cannot ⁓ be serving ⁓ goodness, ⁓ we cannot be serving the good force, we cannot be serving the healing that is needed because the best way we can serve that is by being.
Ayla Schafer (61:39)
those energies that are needed like first and foremost ⁓ and from there you know the right action will come the right direction will come we will know where is our place when is the moment to speak out when is the moment to rest when is the moment ⁓ to ⁓ you know whatever whatever is regarded to and ⁓ I guess I I wanted to just add this in because it’s it really is these times where
Ayla Schafer (62:08)
There’s so much suffering and there has been also for thousands of years and most probably ⁓ there will continue to be a lot of suffering for a while and many catastrophes and ⁓ we are being, I feel like we are being shaped and trained for these times of how do we respond and how do we stay in our center and how do we stay in alignment with the qualities that are most needed here on earth that we anchor those qualities here in this reality.
Ayla Schafer (62:38)
through our own being, through being them. This is the most powerful way that we can anchor that energy that is needed is through being it, through walking it, radiating it, emanating it, living it. Then our thoughts, our words, our actions will be coming from a place deeply aligned with those truths. And I, from my own experience of having really wobbled and really kind of been.
Ayla Schafer (63:06)
pulled under the water, I’m beginning to understand that ⁓ this somehow is the way and it’s not easy because it’s also not about spiritually bypassing. ⁓ That’s also not the answer. It’s some very fine dance of including it all, responding to it all, but being very anchored, very grounded, very centered, very connected ⁓ and…
Ayla Schafer (63:36)
and leaning back into all that presence and support and guidance that we have of the invisible realm that are ⁓ also working here with us.
Sam Believ (63:51)
Very wise words, Hila, thank you so much. ⁓ Synchronistically so, most people don’t know I’m originally from Latvia because I don’t look Latvian, people think I am Colombian or something like that. And a few days ago you were in Latvia ⁓ and as you say those things it kind of reminds me when Latvia was getting independence ⁓ from Soviet Union,
Ayla Schafer (63:52)
Thank you so much.
Ayla Schafer (64:05)
Thank you.
Ayla Schafer (64:10)
Hmm.
Ayla Schafer (64:14)
Wow.
Sam Believ (64:17)
they actually managed to do it without fighting and revolutions and killing people and stuff like that what they did was they actually created a human chain of people holding hands all the way from Estonia through Latvia and down to Lithuania and they were just holding hands and they were just singing it’s called singing revolution I don’t know if you heard about it but I think that this is the spirit of
Ayla Schafer (64:42)
This is the spirit book.
Sam Believ (64:44)
us sort of changing the world instead of going there and fighting and then your desire to be good becoming just another bad person just with a slightly different truth maybe yeah starting with ourselves and going from harmony and yeah i think that maybe they can sing some of your songs when in that ⁓ resistance
Ayla Schafer (64:49)
and then your desire to.
Ayla Schafer (65:11)
That’s such a beautiful, ⁓ symbolic, well, it was a reality, but also the symbol of that.
Ayla Schafer (65:22)
like holding, that’s the way, like holding hands with a very clear purpose, you know, like they didn’t just do that without an intention. There was a very clear purpose for liberation and singing. This is such a beautiful symbol of what is needed, a vision for what is needed in this time.
Sam Believ (65:48)
So yeah, very synchronistically. So I was so surprised when you messaged me and you said, let’s record, I’m Latvian time. I was like, are you giving me Latvian time because you think I’m Latvian and I’m in Latvia? Or it’s like, you were actually giving a concert in Riga that is so cool. I haven’t been in Latvia for five years, so maybe it’s time for me to go back. Ayla, we are slightly over an hour now. I think it was very fascinating and it was so interesting to learn about your…
Ayla Schafer (65:53)
I’m lucky, I’m always like, I’m really lucky. I’m lucky, I’m actually ⁓ in a concert in Riga, but I haven’t been lucky in five years.
Sam Believ (66:18)
your journey and your medicine journey. Any maybe last parting words, any words of guidance to the people or maybe where can they find you or where can they attend your next concerts. I know you’re traveling now and giving a lot of concerts, right?
Ayla Schafer (66:35)
Yeah, I’m coming to the end of this tour. I will be on tour again in October. And then, ⁓ yeah, maybe it’s worth to just bring into this space that I ⁓ have been very influenced from my years of being in ceremony and singing in ceremonies. And it reached a point in
Ayla Schafer (66:56)
my journey, like for many years I wasn’t singing in, you know, publicly, like that I just was, had no interest in, I was like, why would I want to do that when I can sit in ceremony and ⁓ pray and be in this incredibly sacred space? And then it just became very clear, it just became very clear, like Isla, you need to be out there and sharing your music and also, you know, unsustainable for my own body basically to be staying awake so often.
Ayla Schafer (67:25)
in ceremonies and also a deep respect or ⁓ a deep reverence for that space and.
Ayla Schafer (67:35)
Yeah, so, you know, for many reasons I now am ⁓ only really sharing in concerts, but what I, my intention is always to hold it as a ceremony. You know, ⁓ I have no interest in going back to those years when I was younger and playing to people who are drinking and not listening and being some form of entertainment.
Ayla Schafer (68:03)
Like it’s not, for me it’s not about entertainment. It’s like, okay, let’s sit together and pray and listen deeply to ourselves and listen deeply to the earth and be guided by the force ⁓ of these songs, the spirit of the songs, the spirits that come with each songs and…
Ayla Schafer (68:23)
Yeah, the power of creating these spaces, you know, especially for those who it’s maybe not right for them, or they don’t have the courage or they’re not ready or, or that’s just not actually what they need to drink medicine. It’s not for everybody. It’s not. I don’t actually believe there’s one medicine that is medicine for everybody. It’s like we are very unique and
Ayla Schafer (68:48)
can be different moments of our lives, that a different medicine is what is needed. And I see the real beauty of also bridging these spaces of being in prayer and being in sacred space together and gathering in a way of creating safe space to feel and ⁓ love and cry and sing and dance. So that’s kind of the vision and the…
Ayla Schafer (69:16)
in the intention of which I offer ⁓ with my concerts. It’s like there isn’t really a word, like a word doesn’t really exist yet of quite what this is because I don’t really feel it’s a concert. Yeah, I don’t want to label it as a ceremony. It’s, you know, it is what it is. It is what it is. It just is what it is. But yeah, people can find me. Anyone who lives in Europe might catch me in the autumn.
Sam Believ (69:45)
I think the word that can work for you is a celebration, something in between ⁓ the concert and the ceremony. For people that don’t know, it took us about three months to make this episode possible because of your busy schedule and my busy schedule, but I was totally worth the wait. I enjoyed it a lot and thank you so much for all the wisdom.
Ayla Schafer (69:58)
⁓ for ⁓ people that don’t know, it took us about three months to make this episode possible.
Ayla Schafer (70:10)
Thank you. Thank you.
Sam Believ (70:15)
and for you guys find Ayla on YouTube she has I think one of her songs is at like 25 million views now so that’s probably people that are listening to this podcast have heard your music whether they know it’s coming from you or no ⁓ but find it listen to it it’s it’s truly connected to ⁓ to the spirit to the earth and
Sam Believ (70:42)
enjoy it and it will do you a lot of good. So thank you so much, Isla.
Ayla Schafer (70:48)
Thank you, Sam.
Sam Believ (70:51)
Guys you were listening to ayahuasca podcast as always with you the host Sambiliyev ⁓ If you enjoyed this episode, please ⁓ leave us a like wherever you are listening and subscribe and I’ll see you in the next episode