Sam Believ of LaWayra Ayahuasca retreat joined by Oliver Glozik of Guacamayo retreat to talk about frequently asked questions and concerns about Ayahuasca.

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Transcript

Sam Believ: You’re listening to ayahuasca podcast.com.

Hi guys, and welcome to ayahuasca podcast.com. As always me, Sam, believe the the founder of LoRa Ayahuasca retreat. Today I’m joined once again by Oliver Glick or Guam May retreat. This time we’re filming at this territory here at his retreat, so that beautiful paintings that you see in the background, you might see them in there in his videos as well.

And the subject for today’s video is frequently asked questions and concerns about Ayahuasca. Oliver welcome.

Oliver Glozik: Thank you very much for having me and for coming all the way up here to the north of INE to keep on sharing this valuable question, to answer questions that you might have. Also write comments messages to Sam or me about topics, suggestions.

And we’re more than happy to create more content specifically about what’s important to you and frequently asked question. Common concerns I think is a very big topic because you know, there’s so many stories out there about ayahuasca and people wanna have that experience, but it’s something so foreign.

So obviously there are concerns, there are questions, and I think a big one is about safety. Safety in the physical sense, and then the emotional one. We can go step by step. And the first one is, is it safe to drink ayahuasca?

Sam Believ: Well. Long story, long short answer is yes, ayahuasca is safe. However, it’s only safe if you do it right.

So what I generally like to say is whenever you hear those terrible stories of somebody keep being hurt in ayahuasca, it’s one of the three things. Either the shaman is not a real shaman and he doesn’t really know what he’s doing, or the medicine is not the real medicine and has dangerous additives.

Or the person that’s coming to the retreat did not follow the instructions, we’re taking some medicine or was already on the borderline of dying, and ayahuasca just tipped him over. Did I miss anything?

Oliver Glozik: Well, the contraindication I think what you said is perfect. I ask safe if you are safe and you do it in the right circumstances and medical contraindications.

So people with psychiatric conditions, it’s a borderline, a personal disorder. Also schizophrenia. Those things for those people, the ups and downs are very intense. And on ayahuasca, and also after it can feel that much more intense as well. Psychiatric breaks could happen. Also if you add maybe LSD into the mix of shortly being consumed before or after ayahuasca.

So those things are obviously very strong substances and also that affect the brain chemistry. And if there’s a imbalance in the brain with preexisting medical conditions, it’s better to, to step away and not drink ayahuasca.

Sam Believ: So guys, if you’re planning to drink Ayahuasca four weeks before the retreat, stop taking any antidepressants.

Stop taking any psychoactive medicines. Stop taking any psychedelics other than, you know, no LSD, no mushrooms, no weed, and that that should keep you safe. And, you know, closer two weeks before. Stop drinking alcohol and then start, start a special diet for preparation and that should keep you safe, as you mentioned, regarding mental health.

I really like that explanation that I’ve read in some podcasts, but basically in, in mental health, there’s two, two sides of mental health issues. Too much chaos and too much order. Mm-hmm. Too much chaos is stuff like schizophrenia, psychosis. Too much order is stuff like depression, O-C-D-P-T-S-D anxiety which is characterized by repeating thought loops.

So what you wanna do is you wanna break the thought loops, so you need more chaos. And if you’re already bipolar or, or psychosis, schizophrenia, you have too much chaos. You don’t want to add much more chaos because, so it’s basically, if you find yourself here, then psychedelics are good to bring you. Add a bit more chaos, allow your brain to re reset and start from scratch.

So it’s, I know it’s not directly on the question, but I think that it’s it’ll be valuable for some of you to know, guys.

Oliver Glozik: Yes. So make sure that you are medically clear to drink Ayahuasca. I think it also extends over to heart disease, to to epilepsy as well. And also talk with the Ayahuasca Retreat Center itself.

Everybody has their own guidelines that they follow. And by choosing a reputable retreat center, they wanna make sure that you’re safe because they, they cannot afford to make any compromises. And it’s better to say no to a person more than try to get everybody there and then deal with consequences that you don’t want to deal with.

So I ask a safe if you have the right, medical condition to drink if you drink at the right place. And then the next question about safety, I think it also goes over to the emotional safety. Will I be safe during the ceremony? What about the intensity of the journey? Am I ready to face all the childhood traumas that I have buried?

All that kind of stuff. So am I gonna go crazy? Am I gonna go crazy? Will I lose control? Mm-hmm. And it’s a lot more elusive and would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Sam Believ: So I do believe that you will lose control, but it’s a good thing you lose control. So if, if you, if you think about it, we have ego.

And ego is not always a bad thing. Ego is a, you know, mental construct that helps us control ourselves. It helps us achieve things and protect ourselves. But sometimes the ego is running on like a, not software that hasn’t been updated for many years. So let’s say you’ve been. Abused mentally. When you’re a kid, you became overly protective and you still keep doing it.

Even though now in your life there are no people abusing it. So it’s good to let go of the control and ayahuasca helps you to, to release that, release, that ego, it dissolves. You go back there and you adjust it a little bit, so you’re a little bit less strict or maybe a little less reactive. So losing, losing control can be a good thing in that, in that container.

Obviously when you lose control, you need to make sure that you don’t have your own protection. So you’re your environment and the, the facilitators of the retreat, they have to be there for you. They have to protect you. What do you think, Oliver?

Oliver Glozik: I think it’s a very big topic, and if you think about, I think a big topic is being able to trust yourself.

The medicine, the facilitators, the ayahuasca. Because you’re going to sleep every single day and you lose control. You don’t know what you’re gonna dream. You don’t know if you’re gonna wake up, but you’ve done it so many times that you, in most cases, unless you have severe nightmares, don’t ha you’re not afraid of going to sleep and knowing that you are not venturing into psychedelics, but you’re drinking a medicine.

And this is a medicine that has a long tradition and that we’re following, that we’re sharing and people are gonna take care of you. They know those different, those states of ayahuasca very well, and know what the different participants need at different times as well. And then knowing that whatever comes up for me, there’s a reason that it comes up.

And also having the trust in yourself that I’m able to. Confront, feel whatever I need to feel, and then go through it. And I think that’s the trust in yourself and the medicine and the process is a very big factor of starting to let go of control.

Sam Believ: Oliver, at your retreat, what do you do to help people feel more emotionally safe?

Oliver Glozik: Mm-hmm. So I think very important are conversations before of feeling good in the group. Sharing your intentions, sharing agreements of confidentiality, respect and non-judgment authenticity. To have those conversations that you are going in that extraordinary state of consciousness that you might encounter, certain parts of yourself where you feel fear, where you feel, tired alone, all that kind of stuff, and that you are ready to go on that journey. Also, before the first ceremony, we do a holotropic breathwork session where you consciously over breathe, you have more oxygen in your body that changes your brain chemistry. The monkey brain starts to shut down deeper parts of the brain where deep memories, emotions are stored are going to activate.

So people are already making that shift from their head to their body, to their heart. You do the ice bath before the ceremonies as well too, because in the ice bath you’re not thinking about the problems of yesterday or the worries of tomorrow. You are in the present moment. You found out that you’re a lot stronger than you thought that you were, and also you’re building trust.

Trust in yourself and the place and the group and the facilitators. It’s not just you. You calm, you drink, you go. But you ease into the whole process.

Sam Believ: Yeah, absolutely agree. It’s important to spend some time before the first ceremony for the group to get to know each other, for everyone to feel comfortable, for everyone to, you know, trust the type, the trust, the facilitators, because you, it’s hard to trust strangers.

So this is really crucial. Another thing that I think helps a lot and helps add comfort for people, emotional comfort during the ceremony, when they’re going through those difficult moments is medicine. Music, medicine, music is there for you. It’s like a lifeline to a tradition. It’s like you’re not alone.

You might not see anything, or you might not even remember language. Right. You might be so deep, but you will feel that there is music, and this music means that it’s still organized. You still have support that the help that music provides is really in invaluable. And this definitely, definitely is one of those things.

Did we forget anything on that subject?

Oliver Glozik: Well, another thing I, which I believe helps a lot is the facilitator and the shaman. So when people like, you know, you watch ’em, they encounter something and then they start to become nervous and anxious and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, it’s, I had a moment, it was more my beginning journey of, of ayahuasca where somebody was having a strong reaction and I was starting to be a bit worried about the person as well. Mm-hmm. And then the day after Sergio talked with me and he says like, yeah, you have, you cannot be that. You always have to have that level of trust. And so when people are going through whatever difficult situations or reactions, I stay very grounded and communicate that, not with the words, but with the attitude.

The way you you interact with that person and they feel like, oh, okay, no, somebody is there, somebody is composed. And having that level of composure within yourself, the facilitator, the title, it helps ground you in the experience as well.

Sam Believ: Definitely. It’s it’s much easier for us to remain calm in the ceremony.

’cause, you know, we’ve been doing it for a few years now and, something that for a visitor might seem like, wow, this is, this is crazy, is normal for us. So we just chills. A lot of times people come to us after ceremony and say, like, how, how, how can you maintain that level of composure? It’s just you, you learn to trust.

You learn to trust that even though it seems like something is happening, nothing is gonna happen. Nothing bad is gonna happen. Oliver, our next question. Physical discomfort people. A lot of, a lot of times people ask, how, how this, how comfortable would it be? Will I puke? Will I poop myself? That stuff, things, what do you say?

Oliver Glozik: Well, apart from the poop yourself, I think the physical discomfort is just part of the experience and it’s, there’s a Spanish saying, which I like a lot, is for, to fortify that you strengthen yourself by going through these experiences mentally, emotionally, spiritually, but also physically. And sometimes people are like, oh, I don’t wanna drink ayahuasca because I don’t want to puke.

And in reality, it’s, if that’s the reason why you don’t want to drink ayahuasca, you’re not really ready for ayahuasca. Your pain is not that big. If vomiting for two minutes or one minute is something that stops you from having a possible transformational experience in your life. And also vomiting is actually very healthy mechanism that all mammals do.

I mean, my dog Fukes when he ate something bad, and it’s a part of this intoxication. And I also had a participant, she said her favorite part of the ceremony was the puking itself, because it’s not just the physical release, it’s also emotional, spiritual cleansing, things that you’ve been holding onto that you let go, and then whew.

The ceremony starts to become better as well. So I think the purging is a huge element to ayahuasca and a very beneficial one.

Sam Believ: Yeah. Like in colo tradition, as you know, they don’t say vomit, they say oli, which means to alleviate. So it’s not like vomiting, it’s, it’s alleviating because as you said, together with that bodily fluid comes out, emotions you know, spiritual junk and afterwards you feel immediately better.

It’s also, it’s, it’s also really funny and difficult to understand, but you get better at puking till the point where, by the end of the retreat you’re like, you, you’re so good at it. And it’s, people expect to puke. They’re like, oh, I didn’t purge this ceremony. Something wrong with me. No, it felt, felt incomplete.

So it goes from something undesirable to something you expect because you know that it will come together with the release. And same goes with all the other types of purging. Purging can be yawning, crying, talking, screaming, shaking your body. It can be going to the toilet, diarrhea, pee. Any release of any sorts is, is purging and you can feel the tension leaving your body.

It’s that stress that we carry all over our body, in our muscles, you know, in our guts, in our organs. It just leaves you in, in the form and sometimes it, you might expect it as something unpleasant, but it’s actually is not that bad. And what about pooping yourself? Have you ever pooped yourself over?

Be honest.

Oliver Glozik: I’ve done twice, one, one time here so far. But it’s was for me both times in the jungle with various ceremonies, with various cups of ayahuasca as well. And I can say like on the one time I was very greedy for ayahuasca. Mm. And I got a little bit of a slap from Ayahuasca and yes, that’s, but I haven’t had somebody poop themselves here at this place.

So I’m happy about that. But in the end it’s also, you put a level of shame and guilt maybe on top of it if that happens. And even if it would happen, I mean, it’s not something to be proud of, but I mean, it happened. You clean yourself up. Life goes on. Not a little bit of a humbling experience, but also not the worst that could ever happen.

Sam Believ: Yeah, guys. I put myself once, it was about a year ago. I had a lot of ayahuasca, very, very strong dose. And lemme tell you, it was the best thing ever. I felt amazing. It’s, it’s, it’s not that you don’t feel it, it’s not that you don’t know that you’re pooping yourself. It’s, you come to that level of not caring.

You’re just like, I feel like pooping. I’m just gonna poop myself and whatever. Like, and yeah, it felt really liberating. Luckily. So we have two kids, so my wife is very well versed with wet, wet vibes and changing that kind of stuff. So it, it kind of didn’t, didn’t hurt us, but it does happen occasionally at the retreat that people you know, you might be so deep with the medicine that you just can’t go to the bathroom.

And it, it does happen really rarely. It’s not a big deal. But we do sell adult diapers in our store. You do. Yeah. You don’t, you should start doing it. It’s a big hit. Yeah. And a lot of times we say, if you’re worried about that. Just get a diaper and just so you’re not worried because then it will allow you to actually mm, release control and connect better with the medicine.

Mm-hmm.

Oliver Glozik: I think that’s a very good point that you talked about releasing control and feeling safe because there are multiple aspects surrounded by it, and it’s, once you also experience ayahuasca for the first time and you see for yourself, oh, I am safe, I am taken care of. The walls are gonna be that much further down the second or the third ceremony that you do as well.

So of course, in the beginning it might feel like a concept. Hey, see ayahuasca as a friend, trust it, but you’ve never experienced it. But once you have your first ceremony, you see like, oh, I’m good. I’m taken care of, I have a strong experience, but I’m safe. I learned something from it. Others are having those similar processes.

It, it allows it to develop and create that level of trust through your own experience.

Sam Believ: Yeah.

Oliver Glozik: It has to be the diaper. It’s the diaper.

Sam Believ: Yeah. Speaking of trust another subject that people worry about a lot, my experience is the group. Mm-hmm. They, they’re always worried, oh, the group is gonna be too big.

All those new people. And that, you know, is, are is it gonna be safe? Is it the, the, the sort of trustworthiness of, of the other group, of the people. And what I like to say on that subject is we never ever had anyone leave the retreat and complain about their group, what people worry about the most in the beginning.

That, you know, they’re gonna come and there will be other people at the retreat. It turned, turns out to be in the end of the retreat. The best thing, Hmm. People become friends, they become like a family. They really connect. They, in the end, the, the groove dynamic from our experience. Plays a huge positive role.

What, what do you think, Oliver, have you observed any, anything on, on the subject of the groups?

Oliver Glozik: Well, I think it’s interesting ’cause if you meet somebody and then they trigger you just like, oh, that type of person again, what is it about that person that that person has so much emotional power over you or so much emotional influence?

In most cases, that person represents somebody to you. Maybe your mom, your, your dad, a person that screw you over in business, whatever it is. But if some, if you meet somebody in such a short period of time and they have a strong emotional impact on you. In most cases, it’s more about you than it is about them.

And through the process of ayahuasca, you can explore those triggers and see what’s inside of me that is unclear, that is in disharmony with those types of people. And those people can be the biggest, biggest mirrors and the biggest source of growth as well.

Sam Believ: Yeah, it works this way where you get triggered by something and you can analyze it in yourself and sort of heal it.

And it also works in a way that sometimes in the group you have people that are very similar to you, people that are telling the story that is very similar to you and you might not see your own problems because it’s hard to tell yourself, you know, maybe I’m not right, or maybe I’m not as good of a person as I thought I was.

But looking at the other person in the group, going through their AYA was experience and actually coming out with. Information and you see at them, and then eventually it hits you and you’re like, yeah, I’m just like this person. And it’s easier to accept the truth because it comes in that sort of convoluted back doorway.

Mm-hmm.

Oliver Glozik: A very good point. And also I think it’s beautiful to observe that people from all over the world, different backgrounds come together, rich, poor overweight skinny, all different backgrounds, and they connect on the human basis because it’s not about who has traveled the most country, who makes the most money, but about, you know, there’s certain parts in ourselves that is in this harmony that we, it creates a certain level of suffering and we can connect on those imperfect aspects of ourselves on those things that we want to overcome together as a, as individuals, as a, as a collective as well.

And seeing. All these different backgrounds come together and, you know, get listening to each other. Mm-hmm. Bonding. It’s a very fulfilling experience. So I, the, the group thing, it’s a, it’s a big thing that adds to the retreat. I think it’s also, you have to see, you know, because if you do a retreat with 12 people, it’s gonna be different than if you do it with 50 people.

So maybe find out that level of group size that you would feel comfortable with. And there are retreats in that category as well. But the group, it’s many times, a lot more of a be like what you mentioned. A lot more beneficial than initially thought.

Sam Believ: Yeah. It’s amazing to observe how over the retreat.

The conversation people are having gets deeper and deeper and people go from that sort of ego driven normal in our society. This days mode of, look at me, I look at what I have and sort of, let me just wait for you to finish talking so I can tell you more about me. And eventually they change to actually listening to each other.

I think word circles also serve as this great training, how to do it because you, you, you tell your truth for about three minutes and then you just sit and listen to everyone you can, you cannot, you cannot talk. And it, it’s a, it’s a, it’s something we need to learn as a society to listen and people get better at listening.

And like we go from, you know, high nice weather today to somebody waking up and straight thing to talk about this, like deep, deep stuff, trauma, emotions. It’s just, we, we miss that in, in our life. And a lot of time people when they go back to reality and normal, which is not really normal. They often mention to us, you know, through, through a message that, yeah, the world feels finally, like they can’t, they’re, they’re missing the conversation, they’re missing the depth of human interaction.

And the group is, is, you know, close to half of your healing that you’re gonna get in Ayahuasca retreat. Ayahuasca is a big part of it, but the group is another huge part. So hard to put a number on it, but I would say like maybe 30% group, 30% medicine, 30% shaman facilitator, 10%. Something else. What do you think?

What’s your formula, Oliver? Have you thought about it? I think

Oliver Glozik: it’s very hard to put that, yeah. Into perspective. Also, probably for every person it’s different as well. For others, maybe they find somebody who represents maybe their father. And that group interaction was so much more powerful for them.

For others, it was more ayahuasca. Of course, they have to feel safe with the facilitator the shaman, but so many times it’s also your consciousness with your consciousness. So I think it’s, hard to put a number to it, but what I really liked what you mentioned is getting back to normal life, because that’s a huge concern that people have as well.

Well, how will I process the experience? How will my life change? I want a certain level of change, but will I be unrecognizable? Will I lose all my friends after? Will I want to quit my job? Will I be an Ayahuasca facilitator after drinking ayahuasca? Will I become a hippie? Will I become a hippie?

Yes. So let’s dive into that subject.

Sam Believ: Yeah, it’s we all want change, but we don’t want too much change. I’ll be honest, my first time drinking ayahuasca, I was also scared. I was partially worried that I’m gonna lose myself. And that me, that person, that essence will disappear and it will be some somebody else that, you know, that’s not me.

Right? And I must say now that me comparing to me when I was drinking, ayahuasca is a completely different person, but the essence. All of me is still the same, and either me now benefits from a better me and the better lifestyle that I have. So the change will never be immediate. And you’re not gonna be go from being Oliver to being Eric.

You’re not gonna be, become, change your personality completely. It will be a gradual process of two steps forward, one step back where you slowly adjust. It’s, it’s not like you take a a truck and you throw it out and you buy another truck. It’s like, you know, you take, take some wing off and put another one and polish here, and maybe change a wheel, adjust the motor, so you’re not gonna lose yourself.

That’s, that’s definitely a concern some people have. So don’t worry about that. And what do you think, Oliver?

Oliver Glozik: Well, I love the way that you described it also the metaphor with the truck and, well,

Sam Believ: I’m,

Oliver Glozik: I’m a mechanic, so, okay, nice. So for me, when I first started drinking. It was a bit difficult because there was, you know, this world of ayahuasca and then there’s this world of emails and they feel a lot different.

And this world wants to tell me something for this one. And, but how do I navigate? And it’s certainly a challenge. But what I have found is that I’ve become so much more authentic throughout the process, which I really appreciate about myself. And that can cause a level of conflict conflict with your friends and your work and your romantic relationship.

But if it requires you to be a different person, to maintain any of those, is it really worth it? And to have more and more the courage to be myself and go on this journey, what I like, observe the two things the most. People start to become more authentic. And people start to become more human again, more compassionate, more compassionate towards others, more compassionate towards themselves, wanting to be closer with other people.

And I think those are beautiful changes and in many ways also what the world needs. And yes, it’s more of a gradual change. And it also depends a lot on where you’re at in your life. If you are totally lost and have no idea which direction you’re going in life, and everything is super up in the air, and then you drink ayahuasca, I mean, that’s gonna, that person’s gonna have a lot different effect with ayahuasca than somebody who already is in, on their path and or in that.

Direction that they’re going to, and maybe they realize, oh, I wanna spend some more time with my family as well, and not just work 80 hours a week. Those are good realizations to have. It’s not a, so it’s a, it’s a path and it’s also very individual, depending on your ayahuasca ceremonies. Some people come with a lot of questions.

They leave with all the answers and have a lot of clarity. Others are like, well, a lot of things came up for you, me, that now have even maybe more questions. But those things will de develop. Just take one step at a time. You don’t need to have your whole life figured out after I was retreat, but by going step by step, things will start to develop also, I’m gonna say one more thing and then pass it over to you to not have too long of a monologue, but also to connect with yourself with your intuition. Usually, we’re so much in our autopilot mind today. We do what we did yesterday and tomorrow we’ll do what we what we did today.

But what happens is with Ayahuasca, you come out of that environment, you have a strong emotional impact. Then you come back to that environment and you can check with yourself. Those, these types of conversations, these people, the content that I consume, the habits that I carry, are they just learned and are they adding things to my life?

Do they bring my energy up? Do they bring my energy down? When they bring your energy down, start cutting them out of your life in three months, six months down the line, you’ll be a lot different. And a lot more to say also about being more compassionate toward oneself, letting go of the inner critic.

Things that can also just sub change subtly. And you might have not been that aware of in the ceremony, but three months, six months on lunch just ago, a lot more has changed than I was aware of.

Sam Believ: Change is good guys. There’s nothing better than, you know, growing gradually and not being stagnant. It will be gradual, as I like to say.

Two steps forward, one step back. If you, however, do get a very important insight that is very clear, but it’s something very serious. Like, I have to quit my job tomorrow. I have to quit my relationship tomorrow. I need to move to another country tomorrow before you do it. Take great care. Analyze the thoughts.

Allow yourself some time to decode it, because sometimes people see a vision and they think that means one thing, but it actually means the completely opposite thing. So give yourself some time before making an irreversible life changing decision. If it is supposed to be that way, you’ll probably make that change, but definitely do it slowly and don’t commit to.

You know, a new relationship or a huge donation, you know, or something like that. ’cause that happens to us a lot. Somebody comes and they have such an amazing experience and they say, I want to give you money guys. And I’m like, no, no, wait for a week. If after a week you still want to give us money, then yes, because you can, you can get open state that Ayahuasca puts you in is amazing.

It it allows you to feel so much, but it also makes you vulnerable for other things. Like if, if, let’s say you get a facilitator that maybe doesn’t have the best intention, and let’s say you’re a very good looking woman. Some, some shamans in some other places, they, they take advantage of it and, and they might make you believe that you’re in love with them.

And yeah, definitely don’t do it. And, and any serious commitment like this and yeah, it’s, it’s kind of hard to, to talk about that subject, but I think it, it nicely, it’s a nice bridge to talk about physical safety as well, because unfortunately guys, there exist places in, in the world where people that serve you medicine or facilitation team, they might not really be on your side and they might want something from you that you don’t want to give.

Whether it is giving them something physically or like sexual abuse style situations. I’ve heard about those things I’ve never witnessed myself here or even known somebody who knows someone directly. But on that note my suggestions would be look around find reviews. Like I know Oliver has tons of reviews online.

I have a lot of reviews, you know, places like Google where. We don’t have an effect on our reviews. We can’t go and delete them and change them. It’s easy, of course for somebody to collect nice reviews on their website, but then outside of that, where they don’t have control, like, so reading reviews, word of mouth.

If you have somebody who experienced that before and they know it’s safe, and it’s generally just, I guess you can, I, I think you can feel when people have right intentions and if you come to their house and it feels comfortable, if you feel strange and uncomfortable, then maybe it’s not the place.

Because also then if you feel a little paranoid and then you go in and drink medicine, you’re gonna get more paranoid. What do you think, Oliver, about the, the physical safety? Hmm.

Oliver Glozik: I think it’s, in most cases a bigger topic for women. Than it is for men. It’s, I think, important to have conversations with the retreat center before you go there, talk with multiple retreat centers and see how you feel.

And wherever you feel the most comfortable is also the place for you to go drink Ayahuasca. Maybe if it’s a very big concern, you could have a friend join you as well. Of course, it’s there’s more conversations to it if that person, of course, your friend would want to go on this journey as well.

But going as a group or like with a friend might not feel as vulnerable as going by yourself. Also I think it extends to the physical safety, but also very important is that you connect with yourself and find the answers within, because there can be a sharing circle and somebody says something and I think, oh, I know the perfect answer for that person, but.

I, who am I to know the answer for somebody else? I have my projections just as much. And I think we as facilitators the shaman, have to be very careful of the input that we give to the people as well, because they are in that open state. And when then the shaman says, oh, you have a blockage, you might think for yourself, I have a blockage.

And then mm-hmm. Start treating it that way. So whatever somebody else tells you about your experience, what you need to learn, be open to it, listen to it, and feel into it if that’s true to you or not. And then physical self safety. Yes. What you said, reviews. If you go on to remote place and Amazon to drink with a remote tribe, a very romanticized idea.

Maybe not the best idea for your physical safety and wellbeing. And it is a topic. So sometimes I think it’s a bit overblown as well that, I mean, those things happen, but I think in so, so much smaller of the cases mm-hmm. That it actually does happen. And then when it happens, it makes those sensational nature of it.

So of course it’s not something you wanna push under the table, oh, this doesn’t exist, and all that kind of stuff. Connect with your intuition, go to the right place and trust yourself. Don’t be an idiot.

Sam Believ: Yeah. I, I like what you just said about the sensational nature of it. I, I like I like this joke.

If you go drink ayahuasca and two days later you, you’re shot in the back alley, they’ll blame ayahuasca. And it’s interesting ’cause if you go like this group in carna, they, they drank ayahuasca two days ago. Something happened to them in carna and they were like, this couple drank ayahuasca and died.

Hmm.

Sam Believ: It was, it was pretty recent, maybe four months ago. It’s, it’s crazy. It, it feels like a joke, but in reality, ayahuasca is a sensational topic and there’s a lot of people that maybe subconsciously know they need to drink ayahuasca, but they don’t want to, and they instead choose to hate on it. And like, sort of jump on the threads of bad things being spoken about Ayahuasca.

’cause it makes them feel better. It’s an interesting dynamic because those people that hate on it the most, and I, in my opinion, are the ones that need it the most as well. But when it comes to sensationalism, you have probably hungry times, more chances being abused if you go out at night and you get something put in your drink or just somebody overpowers you, but nobody’s gonna make a news out of it, right?

Because it’s normal. But when somebody goes to get healing and then gets abused, it is sens sectional and is not to be nice still. A, it is still a disaster, still, still a terrible thing to happen. But they will be on the news. And as, as I said, anything that that has to do with ayahuasca will, will be overblown and will be on the news.

And, and I don’t know why, you know, they say bad, bad publicity is still better than no publicity. Maybe, maybe not. What do you think?

Oliver Glozik: Well, of course that’s not those are not stories you want to hear about ayahuasca because there are so many amazing stories of transformation, of healing and where there’s the good, there’s the bad, where there’s the bad, there’s the good.

Talking about the sensational nature of ayahuasca, I think it also, one reason why so many people are afraid of ayahuasca because they think, oh, I will have to confront my deepest darkest fears. I will go to all my childhood traumas. I will go to Helen Beck and. Those are the videos that also go viral.

Mm-hmm. But the video where I say, oh, I felt a lot of love, love for myself could forgive that person, that video gets 200 views.

Sam Believ: It doesn’t sell.

Oliver Glozik: It doesn’t sell. Yeah. But that’s so much more the path of ayahuasca and the, and the healing always comes with love. The light, the understanding, the compassion, the acceptance, the forgiveness.

That’s also the path of ayahuasca. So don’t believe every sensational story. Don’t believe that those sensational experiences about ayahuasca ceremonies, that, that go viral, that those are necessarily representative of the majority of ayahuasca ceremonies or of your ayahuasca ceremony. So trust in yourself and ayahuasca and allow it to develop.

And it also doesn’t always need to be the strongest, most life changing experience. Maybe if you connect with yourself and you. You cried and you maybe you haven’t cried for 10 years. That can put so much weight, emotional baggage that you carry with yourself off your shoulders. So many other things that well, I also like, you don’t need to solve all of your problems in an ayahuasca ceremony either, or an ayahuasca retreat.

But if you experience a level of growth, if you get good impulses within a, a long weekend, within a week, it’s still a big big step that you can take in your healing journey.

Sam Believ: Absolutely. Oliver. And one last thing on the topic of abuse, ayahuasca, sensationalism, you know, on all that one rape story from the jungle, there are also thousands, if not tens of thousands of stories of people overcoming abuse, thanks to Aya was coming to the retreat and healing.

Like a lot of people come to our retreat and they. See something from the past that was long for forgotten. And then they, they overcome it and they feel better and they, they heal themselves and their families. And that’s largely not spoken about. People don’t wanna talk about those kinds of things.

And it’s sort of a sad part about the way our media works in general. Like, nobody cares about good news. Yes, everyone cares about bad news because we as mammals, we’re always in search for danger to avoid. So on the topic of that danger to avoid, I’ll try and bridge it to prices. Mm-hmm. Like what what prices should you avoid?

What are, what is the reasonable price for an ayahuasca treat? ’cause people ask that, is it worth it? Is it gonna be too expensive? What do you think Oliver?

Oliver Glozik: Well, I think there’s right price points for everybody. There are ayahuasca retreats for 4,000, 5,000, $8,000 upwards, and one might think like, oh, they are, I would never want to go to that type of retreat.

But maybe you are a very high level entrepreneur and you are used to paying that for a week of vacation anyway, and you would want to go to that type of place as well. So maybe for that person, that retreat is exactly what speaks to them. Then there are also retreats and the all different prize categories and I have a lot of, you know, the prizes that we offer are incredible for the level of recommendation the food, the, the support, the additional activities, the the ceremonies.

I mean, we do a long weekend retreat from four or $500 to a week retreat, something eight, 900. I’m not sure exactly about your prices, but something in that range. Also in the future. I will go up a bit, but if you think about all the things that you get mm-hmm. How much you would normally spend on a vacation, it’s also a question about priority as well.

Also knowing that when you go to Ayahuasca retreat, you are supporting their mission as well. I think it’s a big topic, but you can find from like low budget to high budget anything. Mm-hmm. And you’ll find the right place for you.

Sam Believ: Yeah. Price wise, I think you’re slightly more expensive than us, maybe a couple hundred dollars.

But for those of you guys also to analyze, it’s important to know that. The bigger groups, you can charge a little less. And I think our groups are slightly bigger than yours, so it kind of balances it out. But I know Oliver absolutely tries his best to make it affordable. Same, do we, both of our retreats one week options are less than a thousand dollars.

And honestly, it’s probably, you’re gonna probably spend less spending a week at our retreat than spending a week in any big city in us, just the food and the, let’s say in, in just a hotel in New York, you’d probably spend double

Oliver Glozik: oh, flood more, and that

Sam Believ: that’s not including serene nature surroundings and amazing accommodation and delicious food and the great transformation you can experience.

So I’m very proud of our offer. I’m I also like what Oliver does here and I do believe that we charge very reasonable prices and in the end, the value for you, only you can know it. Some people, like one time I posted online and on the Facebook group and the person said, I would never go to your retreat.

It’s too cheap. So if it, if it’s, if it’s cheap, it doesn’t mean it’s bad. And I was like, yeah, can’t pay double. It’s okay. But the person never came. It’s just he was just there to leave a bad comment. Right. But it, it did affect me. ’cause I don’t know about you Oliver, but I definitely fight the price increase all the time trying to keep it low.

But things happen, expenses happen. Inflation happens. So prices get adjusted. But as long as you get your money’s worth. Then the price is right.

Oliver Glozik: Well, and also if you think about how much does it cost you to not have that level of healing, how much are you spending on your triggers because they’re unhealed, the nights that you go out drinking alcohol because you cannot be at home by yourself.

And many other things to take into consideration that you stay in the same place, not ready to make a decision, not ready to move on. Have being emotionally drained by topics of the past that it keeps you down, not ha not figuring those out, letting go of them. A lot more energy will be freed up as well.

You can use that energy to create new things in your life. So

Sam Believ: I love that analogy. It’s we focus a lot on the price of action, or it’s gonna cost me $700 to go drink ayahuasca. But we don’t focus on price of inaction. Mm-hmm. How much it’s gonna cost me if my relationship falls apart and I need to go through divorce hundreds of thousands.

You know, it’s like, how much is it gonna cost me to keep drinking and I get cirrhosis five years from now, or cancer, how much is it gonna cost me taking all those antidepressants and paying, you know, monthly amounts or smoking all that weed to numb myself down. So yeah, don’t ask only for the cost of action.

Also look for cost of inaction.

Hmm.

Sam Believ: Is inaction Action award. In action. I,

Oliver Glozik: I

Sam Believ: believe it is this action.

Oliver Glozik: Yeah. And I think some people have a problem where they see like those retreats for like three, four or five a thousand dollars upwards in a super luxurious situations. They’re like, oh, there’s a business person who makes a business out of it.

I want to support the local groups, the indigenous community, cultural appropriation. Is it even okay if I drink ayahuasca as a white person? Oh, there’s a white facilitator. How is he supposed to know things about ayahuasca? So what’s your take on cultural appropriation? Ayahuasca making it from the jungle up into the western world.

Sam Believ: It’s a tricky subject. Culture appropriation, psychedelic tourism. Positive effects of it. Negative effects of it. I do believe if it’s done responsibly, it, it can be very beneficial. I. For the indigenous people, I’ll, I’ll give you my retreat as an example. Our shaman is an indigenous person. He comes from the jungle.

He grew in the jungle. He has some land there. He gets paid very, very well, meaning he, you know, definitely top 1% of earn earners here in this country. So he then goes back to the jungle and this money goes to his community because there’s somebody who, you know, helps him tend to his ayahuasca garden. And those are huge territories of land.

This land goes, for example, I know his father recently brought an electricity line to Remote Jungle Village. This is money that goes through from you to me, to him, from him to other people in the local community. And then it brings the economy up. So there’s nothing wrong with it if you’re worried about the, sustainability of ayahuasca, it’s extremely sustainable. It grows where other things don’t want to grow. It’s it would either be sort of just a kind of abandoned land with some forest because the, the food crops don’t grow there, but ayahuasca grows there and they can, they can harvest it, and it’s, it’s an amazing driver for, for their local economy.

And when it comes to appropriation, well, if you ask tits themselves, if you go and ask shamans, like, is it okay? Like, do you mind my shaman? Every time the retreat starts, he makes a presentation to the group. And one thing he always mentions that he’s so, so grateful that he doesn’t have to go travel around the world.

That people come from all over the world here to learn from his tradition, to drink his medicine, to receive that healing. He’s excited, he loves it. And there might be tribes that say. I don’t wanna share it, but that’s, that’s their, that’s their opinion. So at least in that tradition, and here in Colombia, most, most of the tribes, as far as I understand, there was a moment where shamans felt the calling, the world is getting sick.

You need to get out of your cave, get out of your jungle, get out of your mountaintop, and go to the city because we are sick. And this is one of the very few things that can help us. So I’m an optimist on the subject. I do believe that psychedelic tourism can be done well, obviously with certain respect maintained where you do try and go support indigenous communities.

You do try and root yourself in a tradition. And you don’t just go to Peru and go to the market, drink ayahuasca, and then jump off your balcony and then blame Ayahuasca for killing you. It’s it’s, it’s about. The level of respect and the level of tradition, and I think it can be done really well.

What do you think, Oliver?

Oliver Glozik: Well, I, I love what you shared and when you actually go to the Amazon, when I was the first time in maco, I was like, what’s the industry here? How do people make money? And you see all those stores selling clothes and, but it’s like the money has to come from the outside for them to build something up.

It can be for ecotourism and of course ayahuasca is a, a very big topic. And for them to also have the ability to share ayahuasca with people from the west charge different prices than what they charge for local people. It creates that level of resource for them to buy more land to cultivate ayahuasca there.

So what you mentioned, yes, there has been that point where they also understand ayahuasca has to make it out to the world because if it doesn’t, then we’ll just keep cutting down the rainforest and not have that level of consciousness of, to help grow, transform, compassion, all that kind of stuff.

And so they are very appreciative of Ayahuasca, expanding from the level of consciousness, the level of healing that the world receives, and also their economic compensation, their opportunity that comes with it. And I think it’s people who ask that, I really appreciate it, that they think about those types of stuff.

Like, oh, I don’t just wanna be an idiot and take something from somebody’s culture who it doesn’t. Belong to me and all that kind of stuff. So I appreciate their level of compassion, caringness concern, it’s interesting. At the same time, maybe also those very few retreat centers who charge absurd amount of prices and the majority of the profits go to the, to the business person.

That might not be the best example of continuous growth and exchange of values knowledge. So that’s of course a different topic of a conversation. But in general, it’s very helpful to the indigenous communities. Also, it allows the ayahuasca to keep developing as well, because many people in the indigenous communities, they maybe don’t want to be necessarily s or shamans because it’s not a easy job to do.

Maybe they want to be more a DJ or this, that, or whatever, and Ree Singer. It’s it requires a lot of discipline to be on this path of ayahuasca and these opportunities, of course help. And then there’s the video I think that went viral about a guy who put on a, a poncho Mexican hat and a beard and ask people at universities in the US the, how do you like my outfit?

And they’re like, oh no, this is cultural appropriation. You cannot do that. And then he went to Mexico and he, the people, oh, how do you like the outfit? Oh, it’s really good. Does it offend you in any way? Oh, no. It’s perfect. Yeah. So sometimes you can make problems out of things that also are not really a problem.

Sam Believ: Yeah. It’s also not it’s not exactly the same subject as like, you know, wearing something. It’s kinda like when you have something that you have a lot of and you know that it’s really good for you, you wanna share it. They, at least in my experience, the shamans I, I spoke to. They love to share their tradition.

They feel blessed, they feel grateful, they feel honored that people from the other parts of the world come and enjoy their tradition. Would they be feeling the same if they were not included anymore? If somebody just drinks ayahuasca somewhere and grows it and they don’t know anything about their tradition and they’re forgotten, and some big corporation makes a lot of money, probably not.

And this is your choice in choosing your retreat. Where does your medicine come from? Does the person that cooks the medicine gets a fair remuneration? And, and there is there is a way to do it, right. It doesn’t mean that it will automatically make itself right, but people, consumers vote with dollars.

When you pay somebody that is not doing a good job and you don’t pay somebody who is doing a good job, well, you’re supporting a wrong guy. So do your research and make sure. You know where your dollar votes go.

Oliver Glozik: I would like to add one more thing to the topic, and it’s about drinking ayahuasca in a place where it’s legal and also where the tradition is.

There. Here in Columbia, ayahuasca is legal. Ayahuasca comes from the Amazon. It has a, the tradition comes from here just as much as it comes from Brazil, Peru, colo Venezuela Bolivia, wherever the Amazon rainforest is. The thing is, if you drink ayahuasca in the States or somewhere in Europe, there can be very, which are in most cases, more underground ceremonies, and you might be lucky and find a good indigenous shaman who is traveling and, experience a ceremony there. But I think what can also happen is that somebody goes to the jungle, spends maybe three months there and says like, oh no, I know how to share. Ayahuasca then goes to the US starts doing ceremonies there. He will not have that level of deep knowledge about ayahuasca, also how to support people.

That’s where situations happen, where people do not feel well taken care of. And I mean, Columbia is not a long flight away from the us. It’s affordable options. So if you can travel to places where Ayahuasca is legal, where there is that local tradition and you’re that much more likely to have a safe and good experience and support the right people as well.

Sam Believ: Definitely. And just be responsible. Because as you said, that person, I’ve met people like this. There was a person that come, came to our retreat, drank medicine with us for the first time, then went to Peru to some place where after three months they, they gave that person a piece of paper saying that they’re shaman.

Well, guess what? If that person goes and gives incorrect amount of ayahuasca to incorrect kind of person and does incorrect kind of ceremony, and the person dies, nobody’s gonna ask that This person was not a real shaman. They’ll just say, ayahuasca killed a person. Big highlight. They blame it on ayahuasca.

They don’t, it’s like, you know, you have a knife and you cut a steak with it and make a great dinner and feed few people. That’s good. It’s a tool. You know how to use it, but you can also take knife and go kill other people. But there won. There won’t be news about, you know, that. Iki people now, you know, it’s a it’s a bad analogy, but it has to be done responsibly.

So always ask you, you can, you can’t have a white chairman. It is possible a white person can become a medicine giver, even in Colombian tradition, but that requires a very long commitment, like years and years of working with indigenous people, learning their tradition, drinking tons of ayahuasca. So if you do it just for ego, just to tell your friends that you’re a shaman, you’ll fail long before an actual shaman.

We will give you an actual permit to give medicine. It has to be earned. And for people to just wake up one day and just see ayahuasca and say, I’m a shaman, that, that’s not, that’s not, you can feel a calling to become a shaman after first few ceremonies. Something similar happened to me, not specifically shaman, but it was a calling to become a healer.

But I am being responsible. And I say maybe 20 years from now when I master that, I can think about calling myself a healer, but not, it’s kind of like you go to university and you give an application to become a neurosurgeon and you start calling yourself neurosurgeon next day. That’s not how it works.

You become that first and then you, but that’s that’s a bit of a negative, I guess, note because there’s unfortunately a lot of reckless people in, in the world of medicines. But I do believe we answered most of the questions we set out to answer. Do you think of any other things you get commonly asked that we skip talking about?

Oliver Glozik: I think we covered a lot of things. I want to add one more point and about responsibility. Responsibility from the side who’s sharing ayahuasca, but in the end also your responsibility. You know, you choose the retreat center, you choose the place that you go. You choose how many ceremonies you’re gonna partake, and you also choose the decisions that you’re gonna make after ayahuasca.

If on ayahuasca, you start, a desire starts to come up, or a calling that you wanna start to travel the world. It doesn’t mean that you have to quit your job the next day and then travel the world and after six months you’re broke. And then you tell like, oh, ayahuasca told me that I should travel the world and no, I’m broke.

It’s like find a way on how you can travel or find a way how you can, that desire that you experience that you have, how to bring it into your life. But in the end, it’s you who makes those decisions. And yes, there are many things that come into the place from the retreat center, from the facilitators to give a safe experience, but it’s also just as much your decision on.

Going on this journey, how many ayahuasca ceremonies do you experience, and the decisions that you take after as well. So take that like level of responsibilities on both sides.

Sam Believ: Very well said Oliver. And I think we can wrap up this episode now and we’re planning to do it regularly. So if you guys have some topics you wanna ask us, leave a message in the comments.

If you’re listening to this on Spotify, then find a, find the contact information on, on our website and send me, send me the message if you have specific topics you wanna learn more about or find the video on YouTube and leave a comment there. Once again, we were with you Oliver Glo from the Guama Retreat.

How can people find you if they wanna visit your retreat?

Oliver Glozik: So ayahuasca retreat.com is my website, easiest access. It should be a WhatsApp message. Thank you very much for coming here to this place for for the time, for your time of the listener as well to listen to this podcast. Thank you very much and I’ll see you in the next episode.

Sam Believ: Thank you for listening guys, and I’m as always, Samie of Lara Retreat. If you wanna visit my retreat, you go to ayahuasca in colombia.com and that’s Colombia, S-C-O-L-O, not COLU, or go to lara.com, L-A-W-A-Y-R a.com, whichever retreat you choose. Where there is options, we would not be offended. We do regularly send people to each other when either he’s full or our dates don’t work out because I do believe that both guac Retreat and Lara, we maintain high levels.

Of high standards of approach to medicine and integration. So thank you for listening or watching guys, and I hope to see you at Colombia soon.