PODCAST EPISODES

Paul F. Austin has spent more than a decade helping move psychedelics from the counterculture into mainstream conversations about healing, creativity, leadership, and personal transformation. As the founder of Third Wave and the Psychedelic Coaching Institute, his work focuses heavily on education, responsible use, and what he calls the “third wave” of psychedelics.

In a conversation on the Ayahuasca Podcast, Austin explained how his own experiences with LSD and microdosing shaped his career, why he believes education will determine the future of psychedelic culture, and how the next phase may depend less on proving that psychedelics can work and more on teaching people how to use them responsibly.

From Personal Experimentation to Third Wave

Austin first experimented with psychedelics in his late teens and early twenties. Raised in a conservative Midwestern family, he initially struggled to reconcile his positive experiences with the warnings he had heard about illegal drugs.

By 2015, growing research and public discussion led him to take psychedelics more seriously. He began a structured LSD microdosing protocol and soon launched Third Wave as an educational resource for people interested in exploring psychedelics with more intention and context.

Over time, that platform expanded into media, books, practitioner training, and retreats, but education remained at the center.

What the “Third Wave” Means

Austin describes the first wave of psychedelics as the ancient and indigenous use of entheogenic plants and fungi. The second wave was their reintroduction into Western culture through substances such as LSD, clinical research, and the counterculture of the 1950s and 1960s.

The third wave, in his view, is about integration into everyday society. That means moving beyond the idea that psychedelics belong only in underground ceremonies or clinical settings and developing cultural frameworks for awe, mystery, creativity, spirituality, and transformation.

He believes the success of this wave will depend heavily on whether society can create safe and meaningful containers for these experiences.

Why Microdosing Matters

Microdosing has been central to Austin’s work because he sees it as a gentler entry point for people who are curious about psychedelics but hesitant to begin with a high-dose experience.

He favors a stepwise approach: starting with lower doses, observing the effects, and gradually deciding whether deeper work is appropriate. He argues that this may help people become more familiar with altered states while reducing the fear surrounding stronger psychedelic experiences.

Austin also stresses that microdosing should not be treated as a magic pill. In his view, its value depends on the habits and practices that accompany it, including meditation, breathwork, sleep, exercise, nutrition, and intentional behavioral change.

Different Psychedelics Create Different Experiences

One theme throughout the conversation is that psychedelics should not be treated as interchangeable. Austin describes psilocybin as generally more emotional and somatic, while LSD tends to be more stimulating and cognitive. Huachuma, or San Pedro, sits somewhere between the two in his framework, combining stimulation with a stronger sense of embodiment.

Ayahuasca is different again. Austin and host Sam Believ discussed its strong ceremonial context and the importance of gradually finding an appropriate dose rather than assuming everyone should receive the same amount.

This emphasis on calibration reflects a broader principle: the substance, dose, setting, intention, and person all matter.

Education Before Expansion

For Austin, psychedelic literacy is one of the most important tasks of the current movement. People need to understand the differences between substances, the role of preparation and integration, the historical importance of indigenous traditions, and the fact that powerful experiences require appropriate support.

He believes the first decade of the modern psychedelic renaissance has focused heavily on public education. The next challenge is training enough skilled practitioners to work with people safely and responsibly.

That requires more than conventional psychotherapy skills. Facilitators must understand altered states, preparation, integration, nervous-system regulation, and how to create a stable container for experiences that can be emotionally intense and unpredictable.

Psychedelics as Tools, Not Destinations

Austin is also cautious about psychological dependence on psychedelic experiences themselves. Although psychedelics are generally not associated with the same compulsive use patterns as many other substances, people can still become attached to repeatedly seeking ceremonies without changing their daily lives.

For him, integration is what determines whether the experience becomes meaningful. Psychedelics may interrupt old patterns, but the real work happens afterward through changes in relationships, habits, values, and behavior.

That principle also shapes his interest in leadership. Austin believes psychedelic experiences can challenge ego-driven motivations and encourage leaders to reconsider what they build, why they build it, and how their work affects communities and the environment.

The third wave, then, is not simply about making psychedelics more available. It is about building the education, cultural understanding, and practitioner support needed to use them with greater maturity.

Listen to the whole podcast episode here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7wLg3otN17chKmNOSLLKmL?si=e14bdd6daaef400f

At around 40 years old, Adam Butler appeared to have everything society says should make a person successful: high-paying jobs, multiple houses, sports cars, and relationships. Internally, however, his life was collapsing. He was struggling with alcohol, depression, broken relationships, anger, and suicidal thoughts.

In a conversation on the Ayahuasca Podcast, Butler described how psychedelics became part of a much larger process of rebuilding his life. His story also opened a broader discussion about midlife crisis, the differences between DMT and ayahuasca, the importance of safety, and why psychedelic experiences ultimately matter only if their lessons are integrated into everyday life.

When External Success Is Not Enough

Butler describes his crisis as a realization that external achievements were not solving his internal problems. Looking back, he believes warning signs had been accumulating for years, but he repeatedly found ways to avoid them.

He compares these signals to warning lights on a car. Stress, unhappiness, unhealthy relationships, overwork, substance use, and a persistent sense of meaninglessness may indicate that something deeper needs attention. The problem is that people can spend years masking those signals rather than examining them.

For Butler, the situation eventually became impossible to ignore. He stopped drinking alcohol and began exploring psilocybin after hearing about other people’s therapeutic experiences. He says those experiences forced him to examine parts of himself he had previously avoided.

The DMT Experience That Changed His Direction

Butler says mushrooms helped him recognize his problems, but DMT produced the dramatic perspective shift that changed his direction. At the time, he was in an extremely dark place and contemplating ending his life.

He describes the experience as an intense confrontation with himself rather than a simple escape from his problems. One of the central realizations was that he could not continue looking for external solutions to internal pain.

Importantly, Butler does not describe psychedelics as a magic fix. His problems did not disappear after one experience. Instead, he says the experience illuminated what needed to change and helped him begin moving forward differently.

DMT vs. Ayahuasca

A major part of the conversation focused on the differences between inhaled DMT and ayahuasca. Butler describes inhaled DMT as extremely intense but remarkably brief, with the main experience often lasting only several minutes. Ayahuasca, by contrast, creates a much longer process and is traditionally experienced within a ceremonial environment.

Butler has experience with both and sees value in different approaches. However, both he and host Sam Believ emphasize that powerful psychedelics should be approached carefully. Psychedelic experiences can be disorienting and unpredictable, particularly for inexperienced users.

The discussion repeatedly returns to the importance of preparation, trusted support, a safe environment, and respect for the intensity of the experience.

Why the Container Matters

Butler initially approached psychedelics largely through personal exploration, but he says guided experiences gave him a new appreciation for what it means to have someone properly hold space.

Even an experienced person can encounter frightening or confusing experiences. Having trusted people present can provide physical safety, reassurance, and grounding when normal perception changes dramatically.

Believ also distinguishes between personal experimentation and traditional ayahuasca practice. Based on his experience working with thousands of retreat participants, he argues that people seeking healing should ideally gain experience in a structured environment before considering more independent forms of psychedelic exploration.

Integration Is the Real Work

Despite the extraordinary experiences Butler describes, his strongest message is surprisingly practical: what happens afterward matters most.

Integration can mean changing relationships, leaving destructive environments, improving daily habits, practicing meditation or yoga, creating art, spending more time in nature, or surrounding yourself with people who hold you accountable. The specific path will differ from person to person.

Butler believes psychedelic experiences can make it difficult to continue ignoring patterns that are clearly damaging. But recognizing those patterns is only the beginning. Lasting change requires acting on what was learned.

From Healing to Growth

The conversation ultimately moves beyond psychedelics themselves. Butler stresses that these substances are not for everyone and that people can reach greater peace, self-knowledge, and fulfillment through many other paths.

Believ compares psychedelics to a helicopter ride to the top of a mountain: they may briefly show someone a radically different perspective, but eventually that person returns to the ground and still has to find a sustainable way upward.

For Butler, that is where the real transformation happens. Psychedelics may provide an interruption, a mirror, or a glimpse of another way of living. The goal is not to remain dependent on extraordinary experiences, but to build an ordinary life that no longer feels necessary to escape.

Listen to the whole podcast episode here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3NPD9JNZiPBP9IOWpwb1fG?si=s3IvO_ClTo6U-b0g4xXbHQ

For much of Cory Firth’s life, achievement was closely tied to pressure. Competitive sports taught him to perform and prove himself, and that pattern later followed him into business. From the outside, his career looked successful. Internally, however, he had struggled with depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts since childhood.

In a conversation on the Ayahuasca Podcast, Firth described how ayahuasca helped him recognize the patterns behind that struggle and rethink his relationship with work, success, fatherhood, and personal growth. Today, much of his work focuses on flow states and what it means to build a life around awareness rather than constant performance.

A Life Built Around Proving Himself

Firth traces part of his performance-driven mindset back to childhood sports. Hockey began as something playful, but as competition increased, so did the pressure to make teams, impress coaches, and succeed.

Years later, the same pattern appeared in his professional life. He built a successful marketing agency and worked with major clients, yet he felt increasingly disconnected from what he was doing. Even the agency’s name, Proof of Performance, eventually seemed to reflect the deeper issue: he was spending his days trying to prove his value.

At the same time, Firth was dealing with serious physical and mental health challenges and unhealthy habits. After trying numerous therapeutic approaches, he eventually became curious about ayahuasca.

The Ayahuasca Experience That Shook the Snow Globe

Firth initially backed out of his first planned retreat because he was afraid. After a friend went instead and returned describing a major breakthrough, Firth booked his own experience.

He compares what followed to shaking a snow globe. His assumptions about identity, work, purpose, health, and the direction of his life were suddenly unsettled.

The changes were not instantaneous. Firth emphasizes that integration took time, especially because there was far less psychedelic education and community support available when he first began. But the experience helped him recognize that his relentless drive to perform was contributing to his suffering.

He eventually left his agency and moved into psychedelic advocacy, policy reform, coaching, and consulting.

Replacing Force With Flow

One lesson was that ambition did not need to disappear. What needed to change was the source of that ambition.

Instead of creating from pressure, fear, or the need to prove himself, he began exploring how the same energy could come from clarity and calm. This led him deeper into the study of flow states.

Firth describes flow simply as “effortless action”: a state in which self-consciousness fades, the sense of time changes, and attention becomes deeply immersed in the present activity. Rather than forcing a particular outcome, a person becomes absorbed in what they are doing.

For Firth, psychedelics and flow share an important quality: both can interrupt the constant mental storytelling that pulls attention into the past and future.

What Flow Looks Like in Everyday Life

The conversation also explores how these ideas survive contact with ordinary responsibilities, especially parenthood.

Before becoming a father, Firth maintained a three-hour morning routine. Missing part of it could leave him anxious for the rest of the day. Fatherhood made that level of rigidity unrealistic.

Now, instead of demanding perfection, he adapts. If his daughter needs more attention, he can shorten his personal routine to five or ten minutes. Play becomes part of the practice.

The larger lesson is that wellbeing should not become another performance test. A routine designed to reduce stress can become a source of stress when someone becomes overly attached to completing it perfectly.

Ayahuasca, Fatherhood, and Letting Go

Firth also connects his psychedelic experiences with fatherhood. He had always wanted children, but says ayahuasca helped him reconsider a relationship he had been trying to force and make space for something new.

He later met his current partner, became a father, and faced another major challenge when his partner experienced a serious postpartum medical emergency shortly after their daughter was born.

That period reinforced the importance of adaptability and self-trust. Firth says psychedelics became one of several tools he used while navigating fatherhood and supporting his family.

Beyond Healing Toward Integrated Living

Firth does not see psychedelics as something people should depend on indefinitely. He is more interested in how insights from these experiences can be incorporated into daily life.

Health, in this view, is not only about diet and exercise. Work, relationships, schedules, stress, attention, purpose, and the way people organize their lives all influence wellbeing.

This is where the conversation moves from healing toward growth. Psychedelics may shake the snow globe, but eventually the pieces have to settle into ordinary life. For Firth, the goal is not constant optimization or endless self-improvement. It is learning to create, work, parent, and live with less force—and more flow.

Listen to the whole podcast episode here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6GLtIlpioTrOCKLCp32YLw?si=95bee3543c2346fc

Psychedelics are often discussed as tools for personal healing, but can they also change the systems and cultures people live within? That question sits at the center of a conversation between Ayahuasca Podcast host Sam Believ and author and cultural commentator Alexander Beiner.

Beiner, author of The Bigger Picture, explores the tension between the transformative potential of psychedelics and the economic systems surrounding them. Their conversation moves from psychedelic capitalism and cultural change to DMT exploration, spiritual bypassing, and life after personal healing.

Can Capitalism Capture the Psychedelic Renaissance?

Beiner became involved with psychedelics before the current renaissance had gathered momentum. Today, he is both hopeful about their potential and concerned about what happens when psychedelic experiences are absorbed into systems focused on growth, efficiency, and measurable value.

His concern is not simply that money enters the psychedelic world. Organizations need resources to operate. The deeper issue is what happens when market incentives gradually remove difficult, mysterious, or time-consuming parts of the experience.

Preparation might be shortened. Integration could be reduced. Human support might be replaced by cheaper alternatives. In making psychedelics easier to package and sell, Beiner argues, there is a risk of removing precisely the qualities that make them challenging and transformative.

Do Psychedelics Carry Their Own Message?

Believ raises a more optimistic possibility: even if psychedelics become heavily commercialized, could the experiences themselves eventually transform the system from within?

Beiner sees this as one of the great unanswered questions. At one extreme, psychedelics could be considered neutral tools whose effects depend almost entirely on set, setting, and intention. At the other, substances such as ayahuasca and psilocybin may carry a recognizable teaching or direction.

His own view sits somewhere between the two. A transformative experience can occur even inside a commercial system, but the surrounding container still influences how someone interprets and integrates it afterward. That can create a conflict between the experience and the organization surrounding it.

Learning How to Face Pain

For Beiner, the greatest potential of psychedelics may not lie in the specific insights people receive. Instead, they can teach a different way of approaching experience.

One recurring lesson in his own journeys is that avoiding pain can prolong suffering, while turning toward difficult emotions can allow them to transform. This does not mean seeking suffering for its own sake. It means developing the courage to examine what is actually happening rather than continually distracting oneself from it.

For Beiner, this is more important than receiving a list of answers. The deeper possibility is becoming more willing to face reality, uncertainty, discomfort, and truth.

From Individual Transformation to Cultural Change

Changing individuals, however, does not automatically change society. People return from ceremonies to families, workplaces, economies, and communities that may resist the changes they want to make.

Beiner sees culture as the bridge between personal experience and larger systems. If enough people change their values and behavior, what society considers normal can change surprisingly quickly.

But psychedelic enthusiasm alone is not enough. Building something different requires people with different skills, including artists, engineers, organizers, scientists, and others capable of translating new perspectives into functioning systems.

Exploring the DMT Realm

The conversation also turns from social transformation toward another possibility: psychedelics as tools for exploration.

Beiner participated in an Imperial College research trial involving intravenous DMT. During repeated extended experiences, he encountered what he interpreted as different kinds of entities and came away with the impression of an ecosystem containing different forms of intelligence.

He remains cautious about claiming exactly what these experiences represent. He describes the entities as potentially connected to human perception and archetypes while also entertaining the possibility that they may have some form of independent existence. For him, the experience challenged simple distinctions between inner psychological work and exploration of seemingly external realms.

Healing Is Not the Final Destination

Toward the end of the conversation, Beiner returns to a practical question: what are people healing for?

He argues that personal healing can become an endless project if it never develops into participation in the world. After enough inner work, many people begin asking how their abilities, insights, and energy can contribute to something beyond themselves.

This also means avoiding spiritual bypassing. Beiner suggests that grand spiritual narratives can sometimes become another way of escaping pain, insecurity, mortality, or feelings of insignificance. One antidote is to face uncomfortable emotions directly while maintaining relationships with people willing to offer honest feedback.

The promise of psychedelics, in this view, is not that they provide a perfect ideology or automatically create a better society. It is that they may help people become more capable of facing truth, moving through pain, questioning inherited systems, and imagining different ways of living together.

Listen to the whole podcast episode here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/227tBwVOv3uSsvbC37Q5Vx?si=08a79cd537514c53

Can psychedelics fit comfortably inside modern capitalism, or are they fundamentally resistant to being turned into conventional products? That question runs through a wide-ranging conversation between Ayahuasca Podcast host Sam Believ and entrepreneur Ronan Levy.

Levy is the co-founder and former executive chairman of Field Trip Health and author of The Ketamine Breakthrough. His path took him from law into medical cannabis and eventually psychedelics, changing his views on medicine, business, success, and spirituality.

From Law to Cannabis and Psychedelics

Levy says he was once uncomfortable with the idea of losing control and initially skeptical of the term “plant medicine.” His perspective changed after helping build Canadian Cannabis Clinics, which assisted large numbers of Canadians in accessing the legal medical cannabis system.

Seeing cannabis used as medicine challenged his assumptions. When he later investigated psychedelics, he saw potential applications in mental health and a way for people to explore spirituality in an increasingly materialistic culture.

That realization led to Field Trip Health and Levy’s deeper involvement in the psychedelic movement.

Why the Psychedelic Investment Boom Faded

The psychedelic industry attracted enormous excitement and investment around 2020. Levy now describes much of that period as irrational exuberance, fueled by low interest rates, available capital, previous cannabis profits, and growing enthusiasm around psychedelic research.

He does not expect another investment wave of the same magnitude. Instead, he believes psychedelics are entering a healthier phase in which adoption may continue gradually without the same speculative frenzy.

Levy has also become skeptical that psychedelic medicine fits neatly into the conventional Western medical model. He believes many people may prefer experienced facilitators and community-based settings over expensive clinical environments.

Can Psychedelics Be Commoditized?

Levy believes psychedelics occupy an unusual position between products and services. Some substances and lower-dose experiences may function more like products, while others require significantly more support and context.

Ayahuasca is an important example. Levy notes that he has not personally taken ayahuasca and therefore does not claim expertise with it, while Believ emphasizes the importance of experience, skill, and support when working with the medicine.

From a business perspective, Levy increasingly believes psychedelics may resist large-scale corporate models. Rather than becoming dominated by a few enormous providers, he expects much of the field to remain community-driven and relationship-based.

Conscious Capitalism and Spiritual Business

The conversation also explores whether making money from spiritual or psychedelic work is inherently contradictory.

Believ describes the tension of operating an ayahuasca retreat while trying to balance spiritual values with salaries, investors, operating costs, and competition. Levy rejects the idea that spiritual services should automatically be free.

Money, he argues, is simply a medium of exchange. A retreat requires labor, infrastructure, time, and other inputs. Employees need fair compensation, and investors who take risks reasonably expect returns. The challenge is finding a balance without squeezing every possible dollar from customers or workers.

For Levy, conscious capitalism means operating profitably while treating employees, customers, investors, and other stakeholders fairly.

Why Financial Success Does Not Solve Everything

Levy describes entrepreneurship as a kind of spiritual pursuit. Building a company can consume a person’s attention, become part of their identity, and demand years of sacrifice.

The problem comes when financial success is expected to resolve deeper dissatisfaction. Levy says entrepreneurs can spend years imagining that a major exit or financial milestone will finally make everything better.

Then the money arrives, and the same relationship problems, family triggers, insecurities, and emotional patterns remain. The story that success will eventually fix everything suddenly disappears.

This can create a spiritual crisis. Levy believes it helps explain why many successful entrepreneurs eventually become interested in psychedelics, spirituality, or deeper forms of self-exploration.

Living the Game Instead of Trying to Win It

Rather than viewing life as a problem that can eventually be solved, Levy suggests that simply having the opportunity to experience it may be the point.

Humans naturally want to create, contribute, and find meaning. Those pursuits inevitably create obstacles and stress. Removing one problem often reveals another.

The same applies to relationships and personal patterns. Changing external circumstances does not necessarily remove what someone carries internally. Recognizing that can shift attention from constantly trying to escape discomfort toward understanding what it may reveal.

Psychedelics as Tools for New Perspectives

Looking toward the future, Levy sees psychedelics as potentially valuable because they can loosen established patterns of thinking and expose people to perspectives they might otherwise never consider.

He connects this not only with mental wellbeing but also with creativity and society’s ability to approach difficult problems differently. Psychedelics do not automatically provide solutions, but they may help people question assumptions that previously seemed fixed.

His broader prediction is that psychedelics will continue becoming normalized, but perhaps not through the giant corporate structures once imagined. Their future may be smaller, more distributed, and more community-driven—harder to commoditize but potentially better suited to the experiences themselves.

Listen to the whole podcast episode here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1tdkc3S4dJ7zbhwMsYsYzP?si=1563a924a82441ff

Most DMT experiences are famously brief. A person may enter an intense altered state, encounter vivid landscapes or apparent entities, and begin returning to ordinary consciousness before they have time to understand what is happening. Daniel McQueen believes extended-state DMT could change that.

In a conversation with Ayahuasca Podcast host Sam Believ, McQueen discusses DMTX, a method designed to maintain the DMT state through a controlled infusion. They explore entities, consciousness, cannabis-assisted psychedelic work, and psychedelics as tools for exploration.

What Is DMTX?

DMTX is short for extended-state or stable-state DMT. McQueen explains that the concept grew from work proposed by researcher Andrew Gallimore in collaboration with DMT researcher Rick Strassman.

Instead of smoking or vaping DMT, the approach uses an infusion pump to administer pure DMT into the bloodstream at a controlled rate. Because DMT acts and metabolizes rapidly, the infusion can be adjusted to maintain different levels of the experience.

According to McQueen, the dose can be increased, reduced, or stopped, allowing participants to return toward ordinary consciousness rapidly. This differs from smoked DMT, where the journey is intense but short.

Staying in the DMT State for Hours

McQueen says his group has facilitated around 30 extended-state DMT sessions. Some participants have remained in the experience for two or more hours, while one of his own sessions lasted about three hours.

The goal is not necessarily to remain at maximum intensity. Instead, facilitators can attempt to stabilize participants at different subjective levels. McQueen describes moving through experiences involving ancestors, entities, geometric forms, and more abstract states of unity.

He also emphasizes that the work remains preliminary. Individual responses differ, and even with precise dosing, he does not believe facilitators can fully control what someone will experience.

Encounters With Entities

One unusual aspect of the conversation concerns entities. McQueen says encounters with apparent beings are common in the DMTX sessions he has observed, although they do not occur for everyone.

Participants have reported human-like ancestors, animal or insect-like beings, serpents and dragons, geometric entities, Buddhas, and forms that seem completely unfamiliar. Others experience a presence without seeing a distinct being.

McQueen treats these encounters respectfully while acknowledging that he cannot prove what they are. He describes himself as having both a spiritual interpretation and a skeptical side. Whether the entities are independent beings, aspects of consciousness, archetypes, or something else remains an open question.

Can the DMT Realm Be Mapped?

Extended-state DMT introduces a fascinating possibility: instead of briefly glimpsing an altered state, could researchers eventually study different levels of it systematically?

McQueen says repeated sessions suggest that some themes and experiential spaces may be reproducible for an individual at similar dosing levels. He describes encountering ancestral imagery during two separate journeys at comparable levels.

That raises the possibility of combining controlled dosing with brain monitoring to investigate whether physiological states correspond with particular subjective experiences. McQueen describes much of this as theoretical and preliminary rather than established science.

Beyond Healing: Psychedelics as Exploration

For McQueen, healing is only one reason humans might work with psychedelics. He believes modern psychedelic culture’s focus on treatment can sometimes overlook curiosity and exploration.

He compares psychedelic exploration to earlier eras when people crossed oceans, climbed mountains, explored Antarctica, or looked toward space. Altered states, in his view, may represent another frontier for investigating consciousness and the nature of reality.

DMTX interests him because the experience can potentially be stabilized long enough for someone to orient themselves and examine it rather than simply being swept through it.

Cannabis as a Psychedelic Medicine

McQueen also discusses his long relationship with cannabis. Beginning around 2013, he started exploring whether cannabis could be used intentionally to produce psychedelic states rather than simply recreational effects.

His work eventually developed into cannabis-assisted psychedelic therapy. He describes using carefully structured sessions in his Boulder practice and approaching cannabis as a medicine and ceremonial ally.

He also acknowledges its potential for problematic use. Rather than treating cannabis as entirely good or bad, McQueen favors a harm-reduction approach based on intentionality, accountability, and understanding why someone is using it.

A New Frontier for Consciousness

The larger question behind DMTX remains unanswered: are these experiences generated within the brain, or do they provide access to something beyond ordinary consciousness?

McQueen does not claim to know. What excites him is investigating the question more carefully. Extended-state DMT may allow explorers and researchers to spend more time observing experiences that previously lasted only minutes.

For McQueen, that spirit of curiosity matters. Psychedelics may help people work through difficult experiences and change their lives, but they may also invite deeper questions about consciousness, spirituality, and reality itself. DMTX represents one experimental attempt to stay in that unknown territory long enough to look around.

Listen to the whole podcast episode here: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6XU1dkKvjBEGsGp05Z91Lm?si=yMgmwWxZQ9mL4l3ZV7Zjdg