In this episode of AyahuascaPodcast.com host Sam Believ has a conversation with Derek Dodds on the topics of preparation for Ayahuasca ceremony, quitting alcohol, overcoming childhood trauma, advice on integration, Ayahuasca and entrepreneurship.
Find more about Derek www.derekdodds.com
Link to Derek’s book
Ayahuasca: A Beginner’s Guide: How to Prepare for Your Ceremony
bit.ly/48xImuq
Transcript
Sam Believ (00:01.42)
guys and welcome to ayahuascapodcast.com as always with you hosts and believe today we’re joined by very special guest Derek Dodds. Derek is a serial entrepreneur a surfer psychedelic enthusiast he’s a truth-seeker and a traveler. Derek welcome to the podcast
Derek (00:22.158)
Thank you for having me, Sam. Good to be here.
Sam Believ (00:26.144)
Derek, you know you have a personality of, it reminds me of that beer advertisement about the most interesting man you’ve ever met because to sum up your story which I’m sure is much more complex is you.
You grew up hunting, you started hunting with guns when you were like super young and then you became a federal officer. You were a surfer, a traveler, entrepreneur. You started multiple businesses. Now you switched to ayahuasca, to spirituality, so much so that you wrote a book about it. So can you tell us a little bit about your background and why are you, what makes you this way? What are you seeking, Derek?
Derek (01:12.738)
That’s a great question. I’ve always been seeking truth since I was very young, and I feel like there’s been this fire inside of me that I never quite understood. And that fire was, you know, sending me to a Buddhist monastery in Nepal and going to India to study yoga and sutra.
You know, that fire eventually led me to Ayahuasca, which is currently one of my North stars to the truth.
Sam Believ (01:54.176)
When did you start working with the Ayahuasca?
Derek (01:57.034)
Yeah, this is interesting. So my very first journey was in the early 2000s. It’s a crazy story. I went to Brazil and I had a girlfriend down there and I was flying to Peru to go surfing with a buddy of mine. And I had it in my mind that I wanted to do ayahuasca. I didn’t know why.
didn’t really know anybody that did it. I just had this idea and I got on the plane and our planes got, I missed the connecting flight in Sao Paulo. And basically what I did was, you know, they grouped five of us together that had missed the plane and they sent us to this hotel for the night and the next morning we were gonna catch another flight to Lima, back to Peru. And so we all went out to dinner, the five of us, you know, these kind of misfits that
all missed their flight. And there was, and I mentioned, we went at dinner, I just, I don’t know why, but I mentioned to this girl, I was like, yeah, I would like to do ayahuasca. I don’t know any, I don’t know why or where to go or who to talk to. You know, this is really before it was all over the internet and you could find it really easy, right? She’s like, well, I’ve been working with the tribes in Peru for 13 years. She was an anthropologist and she’s
She told me basically, I have a contact of a really good teacher. If you’d like to go, I’ll give you her number and she’ll feel you out. And if she feels it, you know, you’ll go. And I called her up and she said, yeah, come over. And I had a solo journey with this great teacher. But you know, I don’t think I was ready. It was a profound experience, but I didn’t follow the thread.
You know, I felt like basically what she told me, what Aya told me in those moments was not yet. And so then I spent another 10 years without her and came back to her recently when my mom died and kind of led me back to Aya.
Sam Believ (04:14.176)
So when your mom died and you came back to Alaska already for the healing side of it, how did it go? Did it help or not?
Derek (04:25.766)
Oh, totally, totally. Yeah. So my mom and I had a very complicated relationship my whole life. She left when I was one. So you can imagine, you know, what that does to a child and never had a relationship with her and then she died. And, um, I quit my job the day she died. I was working for a nonprofit foundation here in Ohio and like my whole life turned upside down. And, um, you know, I.
started doing therapy and reading all these books on childhood trauma and this and that eventually led me to ayahuasca. I was drinking a lot. I was drinking a lot of alcohol. I no longer drink alcohol, which was a huge change. I felt like alcohol was a way for me to numb the pain that I had inside of me. That’s been one of the biggest changes.
changing that relationship and really just being.
just being with whatever emotions were coming up as opposed to numbing them through some kind of substance. So yeah, that’s kind of the way it went down.
Sam Believ (05:42.316)
It’s interesting that we’re somewhat similar. I’m also changed my life from being an engineer to now running an iOS retreat in this podcast and also did my first year of traveling and truth seeking. And I just realized we have another one in common, the mother wound or mother trauma, because when I was three and a half, my parents had this great idea to send me to another country, to another continent, to my grandmother. And I think there was this…
abandonment slash betrayal situation which I’m sort of working through and I was helped a lot but I’m thinking maybe
Maybe we are so driven because we’re constantly looking for something and maybe that has some kind of roots in that trauma. You talked about overcoming alcohol addiction and ayahuasca being a helpful aspect in that we do have a lot of people that come to the retreat that experience that sometimes as a side effect, meaning they come for something else and then all of a sudden they realize they’re not drinking anymore. What do you think happens there?
on the mechanism of that.
Derek (06:53.346)
So tricky this one because I meet some people that drink ayahuasca once and then they never drink again. And other people who I know friends of mine who sit a lot, you know, they sit a couple times a year and they still drink, right? They still go back to drinking. So and I did that for the first year. You know, I sat in the last two and a half years, I’ve sat over a hundred times and I would say the first 30 sits.
come back after an I was to retreat and crack a bottle of wine. You know, I was, it was, I was right back in. So, you know, everyone has their particular, um, way that they need to relate and work through whatever it is they’re, they’re working on, you know, for me, it’s, it’s a, it’s a lifetime of, of work and, and search and, um,
But I have to say that I never, it wasn’t until my mom died that I really started to look at my trauma. Before that, I was really into spirituality, but I was like, oh, I don’t need to look at my trauma. There’s no trauma there. I was just, what do they call it? Spiritual bypassing, right? Like the one thing that I needed to really, I really needed to look at most in my life, I never looked at. And…
you know, of course, Aya, the beautiful thing about Aya is it doesn’t let you escape the shadows. It doesn’t let you escape from the hidden places that you’d rather not go. In fact, she takes you there a lot. She takes you there pretty directly, you know? And then I just realized in that journey that, and I, you know, and this is the other interesting thing that I think happens to people that are on this path is,
their group of friends start to change, right? Because if before all my friends, we’d go out and like drink, like that was our thing. Well, I don’t do that anymore. So if you’re a friend of mine that still goes out and parties every couple of days or whatever, we’re not hanging out anymore. But I am probably hanging out with somebody else that is.
Derek (09:14.014)
Yeah, that is basically has chosen either not to do that or to hang out with me in a different way, right? So that’s another big shift is it’s not only the alcohol but it’s also who I’m relating to in my inner circle. And as we do this work with people in medicine, we tend to hang out with people that are in medicine. I mean, that’s just the way it goes, right? They become our brothers and sisters.
And so I feel very fortunate to, and it’s hard sometimes, right? Cause it’s hard to let go of a friendship that you’ve had for 20 years. That’s, you know, maybe rooted in certain traumas actually that you were in that relationship because of the traumas. And then all now you’re further away from those traumas, let’s say, maybe you haven’t, you know, healed everything but you do have some distance.
And it’s a grieving process to lose those friends or to create distance with those friends. So that’s a tough one that not too many people talk about, but what I’ve seen in my life is my circle’s really changed, circle around me.
Sam Believ (10:29.684)
Yeah, when we get couples that come to ayahuasca retreats or people that are in a couple but they’re not drinking together, I always warn them that…
couples who grow together or drink ayahuasca together, they stay together. So if you have a friend or a couple that they’re not really working on themselves, slowly but gradually you sort of shift away and you float away. And then one day, years later you realize like why am I even spending time with that person when all of a sudden…
you can kind of see from a distance like how it used to be and that’s you know it’s maybe a negative environment or it’s a person might be a little bit toxic but you’re no longer toxic or no longer willing to accept that toxicity. You mentioned that your healing journey would really began when you started accepting that something was wrong. I think it’s an important part of it you know like
before you start anything you need to accept that something is wrong and that’s really hard because we create those stories for ourselves about how perfect we are and yeah some people hide behind that spirituality when they say you know I did that many ceremonies I did you know these kinds of medicines and in reality they’re not accepting to go deeper so for me personally also was
was a difficult shift to accept that I need to change. So you talked a little bit about, obviously, this is one of the pitfalls, right? So what are the pitfalls?
Sam Believ (12:13.896)
should people avoid people that come to ayahuasca for the first time because uh you written an entire book on the topic uh your book is called ayahuasca beginner’s guide how to prepare for the ceremony so uh can you talk a little bit about how to prepare what to what to avoid you know
Derek (12:32.938)
Yeah, sure. So I think one of the biggest things that I see is that people don’t take the De Etta seriously, right? So they, I don’t know how you set up your retreats, but all the teachers that I’ve worked with have been very, not strict, but you know, the protocols for De Etta have been very clear, right? And the whole…
as you know, the whole idea of a diet is that you’re preparing the vessel so that the ayahuasca when she enters, she doesn’t have to fight so hard with the toxicities and you know, all of the things that people normally put in their body. And I find that a lot of new beginners and people who and just some people in general, they don’t take the diet as seriously and
Derek (13:26.582)
that has a big influence on their experience because if you’re not restricting yourself and you’re doing all the things that you normally do, and that includes also taking time to yourself and being quiet and being in nature and slowing down, but we are vessels of what we put into our mouth. So, and Aya knows that, she feels that when you show up, if you’ve done the,
done a good diet then she’ll bless you with her, you know, her beauty. But if you haven’t, she’ll tear you apart. So diet is a big one for me. And then, you know, doing the digital detox like, you know, the day or two before getting off the internet, getting off social, being quiet, having clear intentions, thinking about your intentions. And then after is also a super important time.
right after is I would say that give yourself also a one or two day buffer on the backside too, because you’re raw, you’re like, that’s where a lot of magic actually happens in those couple days. And then integration is another, it’s not a pre, but it’s, I would say it’s just as important to have an integration. So that’s one of the biggest things that I see is not taking Dieta seriously. And then
not having the tools that I talk about in the book to help in those difficult moments, whether it’s breath work or it’s mantra or it’s positive thinking. I give some examples of using love where you’re feeling dark energies. And so there are a lot of things that, there are a lot of tools that we can bring into the ceremony to help us.
mitigate those difficult moments. And the other one that I have to say that I think is so, so important. If you sign up for a retreat and you have a difficult first night and it’s either a two or a three day retreat, do not leave. Like I see a lot of people, they get freaked out and they leave after the first day. You know, you don’t have that problem probably in the jungle because they’ve come there, but you know.
Derek (15:53.014)
A lot of people in this in the urban environment, they drive and they’re there for the weekend and you know, and I see people leave after one night. I’m like, oh, it’s so it’s too bad because so much happens, especially if you sit a first time. So much happens that first night. My one of my teachers, Natasha, she calls it the washer and the dryer. The first night is the washer, right? And the second night is the dryer. And I feel like
If you dedicate yourself to sitting, sit the whole ceremony. Do not leave, no matter how much you feel. And I felt this probably for my first, I would say my first 30 sits, bro. I would be in the sit on the first night, either a two or a three dayer, and I’d be like, man, there’s no way I’m doing this tomorrow. I am leaving this first thing in the morning. I have to tell my friend.
look, he’s got to find a ride, you know, somewhere else. And I’ve felt that many times. But of course I never did leave. I always woke up with a resolve and a dedication to keep going. So it’s okay to have the feelings, right? But like, what are the actions? Like we have to make a, really have to make a commitment to our actions. And it’s always been great whenever I’ve stayed, for sure. Yeah.
Sam Believ (17:16.604)
Yeah, I agree with you 100% on everything from preparation and the diet, integration, the tools, and especially that part about not leaving. For us as facilitators, nothing hurts more than when people come and they already did 99% of the effort. They bought the ticket, they came here, they came to the retreat, they drank ayahuasca and then…
they want to give up the last moment. We are very good at convincing people to stay. I have all my stories that I tell, especially because the situations are very similar and I’ll tell those stories now as well. And nobody ever has said, I regret staying.
But everyone always said, thank you so much for convincing me to stay. Sometimes it’s an intervention with me and the chief facilitator, we sit together and we talk to people for hours sometimes to try to explain and let them stay. A lot of times what I like to explain is, if let’s say you have a hypothetical.
arrow in your shoulder like that’s your trauma. Of course when you when you want when you start like it’s it sits there and it’s okay you know kind of hurts but you got used to it but when you start moving it around it hurts so much more so before it gets better a lot of times it gets worse and that’s what makes people give up so we talk to them through that a lot of time especially it’s kind of like a sediment you have in a glass and you start moving it and starts rising up
Why am I doing it? Plus the ayahuasca process a lot of times is very difficult. So one of the reasons I created this podcast is to educate people on that. If they have right expectations, then they can bear through it. But if they think, you know, ayahuasca is that highlight story that people always provide about everything, all the best parts that happen, but they try to omit the difficult parts, then people, when they face adversity, all of a sudden they don’t want to.
Derek (19:21.57)
Hmm.
Sam Believ (19:29.07)
anymore they’re like where’s the where’s the rainbows and butterflies why am I why am I puking and why does it hurt so much a lot of times with women especially there is a lot of physical pain that comes up and sometimes debilitating there they don’t expect it and they want to leave
Derek (19:43.009)
Hmm.
Sam Believ (19:52.232)
One time we had two women that had this situation. It was very physical for them. One left, another stayed. And next day she had the best experience of her life. Literally she said, this was the best night in my life. And so yeah guys, listen to Derek. He knows what he’s talking about. If you come to drink ayahuasca, stay. You can lead horse to the water, but you cannot make horse drink. You can lead people.
Derek (20:16.943)
the
Sam Believ (20:18.048)
So the ayahuasca retreat, but you can’t make them drink ayahuasca. Please drink ayahuasca.
Derek (20:21.558)
No.
Yeah, and so the other part I would say is another thing my teacher always tells me is during the ceremony When the second or third cup is being served if you can crawl to the altar you can drink So and I know that um You know everyone needs to figure out their own Rhythm and their own amount that they drink and
Sam Believ (20:41.237)
Mm-hmm.
Derek (20:53.346)
But look, you’re in an ayahuasca ceremony. You’re probably not gonna do this too often. So while you’re there, you know, drink as much medicine as you can is what I would say. You know, and a lot of people fear drinking more because they think that, you know, whatever they’re gonna go deeper into the shadows or, but it’s called medicine for a reason, right? So.
I always remember that when I can only crawl, I still crawl up to the altar for that additional cup. I think it’s important to remember that it’s such a great opportunity. If you fly to Columbia, you’re already there, they’re serving another cup, drink the other cup. Go for it. Yeah, I just wanted to say that.
Sam Believ (21:53.34)
Yeah, it’s, it reminded me of that Roman saying, if you’re ready for, if you want peace, get ready for war. It’s like, if you want the mental wellbeing and peace in your life, then you need to go through war at the retreat.
Derek (21:53.345)
Yeah.
Derek (22:01.527)
Yeah
Sam Believ (22:10.244)
It speeds up the process greatly of the suffering and it gets out of your system quicker There is another side to what you just described we have We have one of our patients as we like to call them Naomi if you’re listening Naomi She’s a great lady, but she’s just so ruthless with more ayahuasca She sometimes we have to carry her to the altar so we have another rule which is if you cannot get to the altar you not getting another cup because
Derek (22:34.431)
Yeah.
Derek (22:37.886)
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s totally fair. Like I said, crawling is fine. But yeah, if you have to be carried, that’s, that’s different.
Sam Believ (22:43.655)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (22:48.636)
Yeah, you also mentioned the post-retreat feeling or state in which you’re suggestible and you’re raw and you need to, you know, everything comes in so much stronger. What do you recommend people do with that opening in their conscious or subconscious?
Derek (23:09.838)
Mmm.
Derek (23:15.266)
Well, listen to the music, listen to ceremony music, which is after ceremony is great, right? Get a hold of a playlist of Ikaros, and if the teacher that you sit with has a list from the actual ceremony, one of my teachers, she released her list post-ceremony, which is such a beautiful way to anchor yourself back into ceremony while you’re outside of ceremony.
So I love that. If you play music, play music, you’ll find a sensitivity to your playing that isn’t normally there. If you sing, sing. But the Icaros for me are great. And then, you know, I would always sit with a teacher or a group, a facilitator that offers integration. I don’t think I’ve ever sat with any…
any teacher that didn’t offer integration, both, you know, usually have integration circle after the ceremony the next day, but also, you know, like, like next week or a few days after right because that’s kind of that becomes the for a lot of people when they go back to their own, you know, regular lives, they feel disoriented. So I find that people in that like that first week.
uh… they need the most help and stand don’t be afraid to reach out you know there i’m sure uh… boy no that there are a lot of integration coaches out there are you know if you have a therapist uh… i work with the therapist for a long time in she and i after every ceremony we would always do an integration call you know if you do it i was to tell your therapist please you know you got up you got it be honest about this stuff
That was always super helpful, right? Because she came at it from a particular point of view and really helped me integrate through the things that I was dealing with. And she already kind of knew my story, so it was perfect. So therapists are great, integration coach, stay connected, stay connected to music, pray, hape, I’m a hape user, so.
Derek (25:41.27)
you know, continuing hape use the days after ceremony is super, uh, super important. And you’ll, you’ll notice that you’re still open, right? I’ve, I’ve had some openings after like after ceremony bigger than while in ceremony, like they’ve just like, you know, just moments of clarity or, um, some Kundalini stuff might happen. So yeah, just, uh, you know, and then.
Keep your dieta going. I would say keep your dieta going for a couple of days. Maybe if you stop sitting on Sunday, run out to Wednesday or something, keep your dieta going. Do the things for your body like yoga and whatever, walk in nature. So that’s why when people sign up for a weekend ceremony, for me, it’s really a week ceremony because you have two days before
two days after and then your days of ceremony. So you really have to think about that whole, like getting off work, going to the ayahuasca ceremony Friday and going back to work on Monday, that’s really rough. And I would not recommend that. Look, it’s better than not going to the ceremony. If that’s all you can do, then go for it. But ideally you need space before and space after to really get in.
feel the flow, feel the magic. And there’s this thing that’s common also is this kind of sometimes there’s a post-Iwaska depression that sets in because you’ve come off this euphoric high and then you might feel depressed or low. So having somebody to talk to about that stuff, another person, what I find helpful is, getting the phone number of somebody that you went through the ceremony with.
Checking in with them, you know, do a little mini integration group with them. You know, you lived something with that person and so sometimes that can be helpful to just kind of reconnect in that way. Yeah.
Sam Believ (27:50.741)
Totally agree Derek, all is good advice, similar to what I tell to people including the music and rap as well. The post-thermo period is when you do everything that your mom told you to do or you’re…
All the good advice, this is the time for you to implement it because if you start good habits, they just take so much better. And you know, meditation being in the nature, journaling, everything. You mentioned integration, I think it’s an important topic for you guys that are listening. If you’re looking for…
Derek (28:20.526)
Hmm.
Sam Believ (28:29.004)
for a counselor, as Derek says, find somebody who at least knows you’re doing ayahuasca, but even better so, done ayahuasca themselves and understands what you’re going through. You can get a lot of therapists, and I’ve heard those stories, they will shun you for doing it. They’ll say, you know, you’re crazy, so fire that guy, don’t do it. And yeah, we, for example, we do have an integration coach that works remotely, so we normally send people his way.
Derek (28:38.775)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (28:59.958)
And a lot of times when people come to the retreat they get really bonded and as you say they create those little mini Zoom calls to keep doing with the word circles during the ceremony. They do them digitally and it’s hard for us because we have so many groups it’s hard to oversee all of them but they basically continue with the culture that has been created. So let’s talk a little bit about…
Sam Believ (29:30.685)
You’re a spiritual person, you had a spiritual practice before you came to Ayahuasca, now it’s Ayahuasca. So how do you combine your spirituality and your entrepreneurial journey?
Derek (29:47.618)
Hmm.
Derek (29:51.446)
Not easy, I’ll tell you that, you know.
Derek (29:56.67)
I mean, I think I go through moments where I’m, I forget everything but my journey. And then I have to kind of bring myself back, right? To remembering that, you know, like, I have to like have money and food and all these things. And so that’s been a real challenge for me is balancing the two, especially if I just went to the jungle, I went to…
to the Amazon and I was there a couple of weeks with the tribe and I came back and it was really disoriented, right? I was very, I was like, I was just looking around, looking around my house going, what is all this stuff? I just felt so overwhelmed by my life, after being in the jungle with just a backpack and…
So that hasn’t been a real easy journey for me. And it’s something I’m still dealing with. And part of me is like, well, maybe I combine the two, right? But I don’t know that that’s the answer either. Like, you’ve done that, right? You’ve combined it. You’ve started this retreat, which is beautiful. But I don’t know if that’s the answer. I think the two lives can live side by side.
Now of course…
there has to be an alignment. Like, you know, I’m a long time vegetarian, for example, so I couldn’t like be a butcher and then be, you know, have a butcher shop and then be a vegetarian, right? So like there has to be some alignment, some coherence between what you’re doing and the things you’re either learning or studying or feeling. So that’s probably the more important thing is there’s that coherence. And there are other ways that we can.
Derek (31:54.306)
contribute and this is why I wrote the book. You know, I didn’t write the book because I like wanted to I’d sell it and you know Push it into the market. I wanted to give back to To People that are in this space which I see a lot that are that are kind of in this in-between zone They feel called a little bit, but they’re not quite sure they don’t you know, they
they just haven’t got over a certain hurdle in themselves to go and actually sit. And so I wanted to give them an intellectual feeling that they could have the tools and be prepared to get over that initial fear and sign up. That was the original reason I did it. And the other part, and the reason I use ceremony in the title is that it is a ceremony. Like our society…
Has lost the feeling of what a ceremony is, right? We think ceremonies like Christmas and well it is for some people but you know, this is like Ayahuasca is a moment to connect with the divine it’s a moment to Really connect with the sacred The sacred spirit the sacred heart the sacred energy the cosmic
bliss that is available and you know that can show up in a lot of different ways and for and it shows up for people differently all the time but it really is a ceremony right it’s a moment that you put aside a part of your life and you say okay I’m you know I’m doing this thing and it’s really important you’re not just going to an event you know you’re not just like going to drink ayahuasca and you know it’s like
That’s why I love it so much. I really feel like the ceremonial aspect of ayahuasca is very important. And. You know, it’s, um.
Derek (34:04.51)
It’s a moment to honor yourself and to honor the things, the mysterious aspects of life that we want to know, that we want to feel, that we want to really get closer to. And so, yeah, that’s the way I’ve approached it.
Sam Believ (34:27.228)
Yeah, in our effort as a society to sort of simplify things and also unfortunately saw commercialized things, the ceremony was removed, it was one of the first things to be lost and I’m afraid something similar can happen to ayahuasca, the desire to sort of put it in the pill and just take it and not have the ceremony, but we need ceremony as humans.
grew up a species, you know, sitting up around the fire and it’s a ceremony in itself. What you talk about, I really vibe with, you know, how difficult it is to combine entrepreneurship and spiritual work because it’s kind of like they’re very opposite energies. It’s like…
When you create a business and you need to pay money, money comes in, money comes out and you’re building something and the stress and it’s like the opposite of this is the ceremony you calm down, you relax, you don’t think about money. If you ever tried talking to Iwaska about money, which I tried a couple times when money was a problem, it just told me, don’t worry about it. Don’t worry about it, it’s not important. The money will come, like don’t worry about it. So
Derek (35:35.363)
Hmm.
Derek (35:41.503)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (35:48.44)
It’s an interesting thing, like in my personal work here at The Retreat, I try to, for example, take care of the money in the beginning and then not talk about money for the entire length of The Retreat, just like, because it’s a very different energy. Like…
Derek (36:05.015)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (36:06.036)
But at the same time, you also need to be open that it is a business and we have to pay taxes and pay the workers and pay for all the improvements. And yet it’s a difficult balance. But I personally for myself, I’ve decided I drink ayahuasca once a month and it helped me immensely when I get, you know, in a burnout state territory. I just go back, drink ayahuasca. It puts me back on my way.
And I’ve also had help from Ayahuasca because it was from Ayahuasca itself that I got the message that I need to work with the medicine, which led me to finding a retreat. So in your own experience with working with plant medicines, did you notice it being a help or maybe get some ideas or some specific push to guide your business or your businesses in a specific direction?
Derek (36:38.658)
Hmm
Derek (36:56.01)
Yeah, all of the above. For me, it really released creativity. And so I painted a lot as a kid. And so that came back. But also the creativity for business, right? So interesting how like first it came back through painting and drawing, and then it kind of worked its way into
the entrepreneurial side of my life and like was redesigning stuff. And so, um, for sure, it has helped me in that aspect. And, and it’s also helped me. This has been more recent after the jungle, I’ve been, um, more focused. Like for, for a long time, I felt like I was a little bit in this, in this
Derek (37:54.486)
I was only interested in that and wasn’t really caring for my businesses in a way that I needed to. I needed to show up. And I remember having several intentions in ceremonies. I kept asking, I was like, you know, what is my soul? What is my soul path? What is my journey? What you know, I was like, show it to me. Because you have some people that come into ceremonies. They’re like, oh, I saw my whole.
future and I’m gonna do this and I never have that right. I was like, okay, this is the time I come on show me. And what she has shown me over and over when I asked that question is she says, lead your life from your heart. That’s it. Like, that’s all you have to do is just drop into your heart and lead your life from that place. And everything will unravel the way it needs to unravel.
and she gives me that lesson over and over again. It’s so amazing, you know, and it’s, of course I want something more specific, but she gives, you know, she tends to give you like the more, well, she gives me the more broad, you know, strokes. She was like, okay, just leave it from your heart, you know. I’m like, okay. So, yeah.
Sam Believ (39:12.217)
Yeah, Ayahuasca rarely gives you what you want, but it almost always gives you what you need.
Derek (39:16.802)
you need for sure. Yeah.
Sam Believ (39:20.153)
You said once in one of your interviews that when you drink ayahuasca you kind of discovered the divinity and all the doubt was removed. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Derek (39:33.538)
Hmm. Yeah.
Derek (39:39.81)
So this is a bit of a, I wanna encourage people to really stick in the journey. I hear a lot of people say that they’ve, they drank once or twice or three times and they’re done. And I feel like, unless you’ve sat,
like 30 times I think would be a good goal. You haven’t really.
uncovered the magic. You know, you haven’t really explored the depths. Oh, yay! There’s a depth right there.
Sam Believ (40:27.49)
We have an intruder. He was knocking on my door, so. Hope you don’t mind, guys. Carry on, Derek.
Derek (40:29.174)
That’s okay. Oh, beautiful. Yeah.
Derek (40:40.846)
So what I feel is, for me, I’ll talk about a little bit about my path. It’s been like the first say 15 sessions are, it’s like dating somebody, right? Or meeting your partner. Like you gotta get to know them. Like you go in and you get to know who they are, they get to know you and you’re hanging out with them.
Derek (41:11.518)
And then like 15 through, I don’t know, 25 or 30, you’re starting to, for me is that’s when I really, the trauma was really revealed. So I got to know her in the beginning. And then as soon as I was also comfortable with her and she was comfortable with me, then we really worked on the trauma, right? We really went, we just went for it. And then after that,
maybe 30 or 35 sits, I started to feel a different energy when I sat, I felt I wasn’t getting to know her, she wasn’t getting to know me, I wasn’t, you know, I was no longer, there was no vomiting happening, I wasn’t purging, I was connected to the Ikaros in a new way, I was connected to the prayers, I was connected to the energies in the room, however they were showing up.
And I felt like, and this is where I sit now when I sit, the ceremony is a prayer. The whole ceremony is a chance for me to pray through the songs, through my breath, through my body. Like it’s a moment to really be in connection with the divine. And so that’s been my.
kind of the evolution of my journey and getting to that place was not easy and it took a lot of sits and it took dedication and work. But.
I’ve never felt more connected to something mystical and mysterious in my whole life. And, you know, I’ve spent my whole life kind of searching or, you know, working in different modalities and different traditions. I worked for the Christian Murdy Foundation for 16 years. So I was like, you know, in this spiritual organization for a long, long time. And
Derek (43:24.882)
I was brought me a connection that I never had in all that other work all that a lot of it was very intellectual like So it brought something it brought something into my heart and Opened something that allowed me to connect in a new way that I never like I never knew how to get to that place Right. I never I never imagined how to get to that place
And so, yeah. And I still don’t know what it is, right? I still don’t know, like, I don’t understand it. I don’t, I can feel it sometimes. And there are times I feel super disconnected. And this is where, like you said, when I’m starting to feel disconnected, I do a mushroom journey or I do a ayahuasca journey. I also sit once a month, which I think is a really good cadence. Once a month is a beautiful.
beautiful way to stay connected, but also give enough room for integration, right? So you’re not just stacking on top of each other, you’re giving some room sometime every two months. So yeah, it’s this dance, right, where I’m getting close, then I feel disconnected, then I go back, and I’m actually doing this course right now with the…
the podcaster, the Emerald. I don’t know if you’ve heard the Emerald. If you haven’t, you should really listen. It’s amazing podcast. And we’re doing a year long course on the mystic and being connected to the animate spirit. And so it’s just fun to be in this space where we’re talking about, you know, ceremony and offering and devotion, right? These are all words that I was very, I was very allergic to for a long time.
And so I’m starting to get to know that side of spirituality, which in the past I’ve always approached it with a very kind of intellectual mind, right?
Derek (45:33.204)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (45:35.328)
Yeah, that makes total sense and describing your psychedelic experience or your psychedelic work is very difficult. It’s like our language lacks words to describe it. The journey and the way it goes up and down reminded me of waves and I can’t talk to you without mentioning waves because you’re mostly known for your surfing and for your…
businesses associated with surfing. The question that I had when I was preparing for this podcast is when you think about nature and ayahuasca and pachamama mostly you imagine like a jungle or a mountain but you spend most of your time in the sea in the waves surfing you surf every day and I don’t really have that connection to the ocean so how
Derek (46:29.751)
Hmm
Sam Believ (46:31.32)
How is that and how does it tie into your spiritual journey?
Derek (46:37.259)
Yeah.
I think the ocean saved my life. You know, like I told you a little bit about my childhood and I’ve been surfing since I was like, I think 10 or something. You know, I was brought up by my grandparents actually, like you and like the ocean. So the ocean has always been in my life. It’s always been this anchor and much like my journey with Iosca, my journey with the ocean has changed, right?
my journey with surfing has changed. And what I know is that really the ocean and surfing have probably saved my life, right? It saved me from…
exploring other modalities to treat my trauma. So in many ways when I go surfing, I have this euphoria. I feel like it’s amazing, right? You’re like moving with the energy of the ocean. Like you’re, what a incredible way to spend a day or an hour or a lifetime. So I have so much gratitude to the ocean and to my introduction to surfing and my commitment and connection to surfing.
I could talk hours about that, but I think what is important for everyone is that they have some relationship with nature, whatever that is, whether it’s a mountain, the jungle, the garden, your garden, for example. And so I’ve always had this deep connection with nature through surfing that has taught me so many things, right? I mean, it’s much like ayahuasca, right? You’re like,
Derek (48:23.894)
You’re surfing and you’re with your friend and there’s a protocol in surfing where one person always, person in position, it’s their wave. Sometimes you take the wave even though it’s not your position from your friend, right? So you see your ego, you see your selfishness, you see your aggression. So all of life is revealed to you in these moments of surfing. You’re out there in a really big day, you see your fear.
Right, so all of life, it’s like this constant teacher has been with me for so long in both punishing me and giving me beautiful insights into myself and into the world and not to mention all the places I’ve traveled all over the world and I’ve surfed, you know, some of the best waves, usually with community, right, with friends, which is such a gift. And yeah.
Like, you know, mixing the two is like ayahuasca and surfing is it, it goes hand in hand, you know, and, and I know, I don’t know a lot of surfers that do AYA, but the ones that I do, I really connect with, you know, I was like, okay, you get it. You know? Um, yeah.
Sam Believ (49:40.441)
I believe surfing can be a form of integration as well.
Derek (49:45.206)
That’s beautiful. I love that. You’re right. Yeah. And sometimes I’ll actually surf during a during ayahuasca weekend because I sit here in Santa Barbara and like I’ll after Saturday after this after the Friday night I’ll go surf and then go back for the Sunday night and that’s amazing. Like surfing in the in the between glow of I am a ceremony. I always felt and I haven’t seen this. I always felt like a surfing.
Ayo retreat would be awesome, right? Even for people that don’t surf, just getting into the ocean between ceremonies or after ceremony would be a beautiful, or in a river too. I mean, we did that in the Amazon. We got into the river, but the ocean has something different, yeah. Maybe retreat number two. I know there’s…
Sam Believ (50:30.764)
It’s a great idea. Let’s do it Derek. We have our own. You have servings. Yeah. Yeah, if I open a second location I would probably go to the beach. There’s something about that.
Derek (50:44.786)
Yeah, there’s good surfing in Columbia. Actually, there’s actually really good surfing.
Sam Believ (50:52.06)
Okay, let’s throw it out there in the universe and if it has to happen, it will happen. It was a fascinating conversation, I really liked it, I enjoyed it. I think we brought up some topics that can benefit our listeners who are sort of trying to navigate their path in this ayahuasca world. Derek, where can people find you, learn more about you or
Derek (50:59.328)
I love it.
Sam Believ (51:22.208)
find your book for example.
Derek (51:22.262)
Yeah. If you go to my website, which is my name, Derek Dodds, d-o-d-d-s dot com, then there are my Instagram pages there. And then I also, I write about an article a month. So I wrote about my journey to the jungle. And there’s a great article on Hoppe there, if you’re getting, you know, starting out with Hoppe, and I write about, you know, some of my teachers, some of my guides, like
Ganesh or Hanuman really connected to the Indian lineage. I also went to Egypt last year and so I write a little bit about my connection to Ra and Osiris and that could be another fun conversation.
Sam Believ (52:08.796)
Yeah, definitely because on ayahuasca sometimes I see pyramids and very Egyptian style theme. I don’t know where it is yet to be explored. Guys, check out Derek’s website, check out his book. I’m sure it’s a good summary for the beginners. And Derek, thank you so much for coming and sharing with us tonight. Guys, you’ve been listening to ayah
Sam Believ (52:39.01)
and I will see you in the next episode.
Derek (52:42.158)
Thank you, Sam. Appreciate the interview.