In this episode of Ayahuasca Podcast, host Sam Believ (founder of http://www.lawayra.com) has a conversation with Shawn Wells, a biochemist, best-selling author, and renowned “Ingredientologist” known for formulating over a thousand supplements and patenting 40 unique ingredients.
Shawn shares his journey of overcoming mental and physical challenges and delves into topics including:
[00:28] Transformational journey into nutrition and biochemistry
[05:14] First psychedelic experiences with psilocybin
[12:28] Ayahuasca ceremonies with the Huni Kuin tribe in Peru
[21:22] The role of fasting and supplements in preparation for ayahuasca
[33:39] Neuroplasticity and post-journey integration
[44:21] Longevity lessons from Blue Zones
If you would like to attend one of our Ayahuasca retreats, visit http://www.lawayra.com.
Find more about Shawn Wells at http://www.shawnwells.com or on social media @shawnwells.
Transcript
Sam Believ (00:01)
Hi guys and welcome back to Ayahuasca podcast. As always with you the host Sambiliyev. Today I’m having a conversation with Sean Wells. Sean Wells, Sean, welcome to the show.
Shawn Wells (00:14)
⁓ thank you for having me on.
Sam Believ (00:16)
⁓ Sean, tell us a little bit about your story, ⁓ your life story, maybe a short version just for people to get to know you.
Shawn Wells (00:28)
Wow, you know, I started out ⁓ a kid that was going to go to college for business, marketing, thinking that was going to be my path. ⁓ I actually was someone that was very overweight and ⁓ highly unhealthy from coming from a background of abuse and bullying and
Shawn Wells (00:56)
It was in college that I started working out and really falling in love with supplements and all their potential and as well as nutrition and in particular sports nutrition. I was trying to put on muscle, lose weight, reading all these muscle magazines, going to the GNCs and vitamin shops and reading all the books with Arnold Schwarzenegger and anything I could get my hands on and
Shawn Wells (01:24)
and I had a pretty massive transformation. And like I said, fell in love with supplements and went to a doctor in between my sophomore and junior year of college ⁓ and told him all about my passion. And he saw how my body composition was radically changing. ⁓ And he told me as he drew out a lifeline between 20 and 80, he said, why not be happy between here and here?
Shawn Wells (01:53)
and that totally radically changed my life path. I decided to finish up business school, but go back and get all my prerequisite classes so that I could go get my masters from UNC Chapel Hill in nutrition and biochemistry. And that’s what I wanted to do is to be a supplement formulator. And ultimately that’s what I’ve become. So if it wasn’t for that one doctor, I wouldn’t
Shawn Wells (02:22)
I wouldn’t be on the path and have all the accomplishments I’ve had. ⁓ So it’s pretty incredible that your words have massive impact. I’ll say that. But now I am a formulator, as you’ve talked about, I’ve formulated over a thousand supplements, patented 40 unique ingredients. I have a best-selling book, the Energy Formula.
Shawn Wells (02:50)
⁓ It was listed on Forbes in USA Today. It’s a biohacking book. It’s an acronym for Experiment Nutrition, Exercise Routines, Growth, and Your Tribe, six pillars to have all the ingredients to live a longer and healthier and happier life. ⁓ And I also formulate supplements for many, many companies in the industry. have a company called Zone Halo.
Shawn Wells (03:18)
I’m chief science officer for a company based out of China where we come up with unique ingredients called NNB Nutrition. And then I have a group ⁓ of scientists that I work with from all over the world where we dream up ingredients and that’s called Ingenious Ingredients. And that’s what I’m doing these days. And then of course I do my social media and I speak on stage and all those good things. And I try and educate on
Shawn Wells (03:46)
mindset on psychedelics, ⁓ obviously biohacking supplements. ⁓ I myself have a history of suicidal thoughts, depression, anxiety, all those pieces, as well as a lot of the physical manifestations of those things with a number of autoimmune conditions like Epstein-Barr ⁓ fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, Hashimoto’s, as well as
Shawn Wells (04:16)
⁓ a history of brain tumors and a number of surgeries that I’ve had to have, including two discs put in my neck. ⁓ You know, I had a pretty severe history of mental and physical pain.
Sam Believ (04:32)
Sean, thank you for sharing. ⁓ You sound like a very busy person. So thank you for taking the time off to talk to us. ⁓ you mentioned, you know, the words have power. So hopefully somebody needs to hear this and this will affect their life as well. And given the list of conditions you have listed, you do look pretty great. So I’m sure you’re doing everything right. ⁓
Sam Believ (05:00)
Sean, you mentioned your history with suicidal ideation and your work with psychedelics. So can you talk a little bit about what’s your history with psychedelics and what have they done for you personally?
Shawn Wells (05:14)
Yeah, that’s a great question. think most of my life, ⁓ I had an impression of psychedelics that they were drugs and those were for drug ease. ⁓ And those were for people that were trying to escape reality ⁓ and really just had bad consequences from all the things that I had been hearing. You know, I’d heard about LSD, ⁓ you know, that you could have trips.
Shawn Wells (05:43)
like years later and they could come back around and like there was all this stuff that I had heard that I had believed that I kind of put ⁓ things like mushrooms in the same category as cocaine and other substances. And these were things that for those reasons did not appeal to me. I didn’t understand them. And then I started hearing in my biohacking circles, maybe after 26,
Shawn Wells (06:12)
in there like, you know, the next couple of years, I was hearing ⁓ Tim Ferriss, Dave Asprey, Ben Greenfield. There was like a lot of names that were kicking around these ideas about at least microdosing. And that started opening my thoughts to some of these substances as they seem to be gaining cognitive function. They seem to be gaining more insights, reducing anxiety.
Shawn Wells (06:40)
improving performance. So I was becoming open to the idea because of biohacking, because of improving performance. Little did I know like this is what I truly needed ⁓ for a lot more than that. ⁓ And it was leading into COVID just prior 2019 that I was talking to a friend of mine, ⁓ Keith Norris, who had run the Paleo effects event and
Shawn Wells (07:11)
And he was telling me about psilocybin and said that I had to do an experience sometime. And he also had done many ayahuasca experiences and told me that was powerful as well. And there was an experience coming up with a number of celebrities in the biohacking space and friends of his. People that you’d, you know, probably about 20 people at this event, every which person you’d probably know.
Shawn Wells (07:41)
right off the top of your head. And I wanted to go. wanted to, if Keith was doing it, I wanted to try it. But at this time, I was driving myself into a very unsuccessful marriage. You know, I wanted to be separated, be divorced, get out of it. I was working 80 to 100 hours a week. I was overwhelmed.
Shawn Wells (08:10)
You could argue that I was probably close to suicide one way or another, either directly doing it or indirectly doing it through work.
Shawn Wells (08:22)
And I decided to take this journey, New Year’s Eve, going into 2020 just prior to the pandemic.
Shawn Wells (08:33)
And again, I was at this event ⁓ and there was, you know, 20 some other people there, all very famous. ⁓ And normally I would walk into a room and I would tell everyone why I’m important, why you should like me, why I’m of value. Because until that point, I believe that love was fleeting, love was conditional, that my worth was tied up into what I do.
Shawn Wells (09:02)
that I had no value as a human being, but only as a human doing.
Shawn Wells (09:08)
But actually going into this event, I felt so scared of all these other people that I decided to really lay low. ⁓ And meanwhile, I took probably the equivalent of about five and a half grams of mushrooms that night. So a you know, a hero’s dose, if you will. ⁓ And all these people that were obviously not taking that that much. ⁓
Shawn Wells (09:36)
came in and out of my circle. I was kind of laying in the cuddle puddle ⁓ and people like a time lapse in a movie were just coming in and out, in and out of my circle and like asking me if I needed anything, laying by me, caressing me, making sure I had food or something to drink, helping me to the bathroom, you know, just sitting with me, holding space for me. And the whole time I was thinking, why?
Shawn Wells (10:04)
Why would someone do this if they don’t know the value I bring and I’m essentially no one to them? That’s all I kept thinking until it finally hit me that I deserve love. I can have love, I can be loved, and I’m valuable as a human being, not just a human doing.
Shawn Wells (10:32)
And for me, that was a profound epiphany that shifted my heart, that shifted everything thereafter. And my life completely changed after that moment. You could have told me those things and I would have rationalized with you because cognitively that makes sense. Rationally, that makes sense to say, yeah, you deserve love. You should have love. You can be loved.
Shawn Wells (11:03)
That makes sense. But until you feel it in your heart, you anchor it in your heart, that’s when everything changed for me. And I would not be doing this podcast right now. I think I’d be dead in the ground had I not done that journey.
Sam Believ (11:19)
Well, I’m happy you did do this journey and you’re here with us and hopefully somebody who’s listening might find something in it for themselves as well. ⁓ And I know what mean with all those cliche phrases, as you know, love yourself and it means nothing, but then through psychedelics, you finally understand what are they talking about. ⁓ we host an average 50, 60 people a month and I…
Sam Believ (11:49)
see it over and over again, just these realizations of those basic and everything your grandma told you kind of things, but now you finally get them. So thank you for sharing your mushroom experience. I’m a big fan of mushrooms myself. ⁓ I know you’ve also worked with ayahuasca. So could you please share about your ayahuasca experience and also how did you prepare to that experience from the point of view of supplements?
Sam Believ (12:19)
because you are the ingredientologist, you are ⁓ the supplement. If you don’t know, nobody else would know. what…
Shawn Wells (12:28)
Yeah, so ⁓ again, great question on my ayahuasca experience, my facilitators that had done the experience with me on psilocybin were the ones that set up the experience in Peru. We went to a maloca there and it was a beautiful place in the mountains. ⁓ And man.
Shawn Wells (12:57)
We were with the Huni Kuin tribe who they were friends with. They did not facilitate this experience. They definitely left that to the indigenous people of the Amazon that they felt were rightly meant to conduct this. And it was beautiful because it was a mother who was the head of her tribe as well as her three children that were between the ages of 16 and 24, two boys and a daughter.
Shawn Wells (13:28)
And it was very, very powerful. You know, they had their headdresses and the paints and the outfits, and they did the dances and chants throughout the entire experience. We did four nights of ayahuasca. ⁓ The first night was an interesting experience because they microdosed us without telling us. We all thought…
Shawn Wells (13:57)
We were going to have this massive ayahuasca experience. Most of us had never done ayahuasca. And so we were all kind of looking around at each other because this goes on through the night. You kind of dose up maybe around eight or nine PM and you know, this goes on through the night. ⁓ And throughout the night we were, know, and you’re supposed to stay in your own lane, your own experience. You know, this is not one of the…
Shawn Wells (14:22)
types of experiences where you’re supposed to talk to each other, like maybe like a psilocybin sometimes is. ⁓ And we all, the next day were like, did anything happen for you? Like I didn’t really get much. And what’s really cool is I believe that set us all up for a great experience throughout because we got a small taste of the medicine in our body.
Shawn Wells (14:50)
We felt safe in this Maloka. We felt safe with the people that were in the Maloka, being both the facilitators, this tribe, as well as the other people that were there with us during this experience. ⁓ And it wasn’t overwhelming. I think to get a sense of the whole thing,
Shawn Wells (15:17)
before you actually dive in and feel comfortable, like set and setting, right? I believe that was super smart. ⁓ And they didn’t tell us they were going to do that, but that’s what they did. And then the next night and the next three nights, essentially, we were fully dosed. And my first night that I was fully dosed, it was magical. It was like full on DMT, like laser light beams, like…
Shawn Wells (15:47)
Tron meets the Matrix or something with just these hyper bright colors. And I was actually holding myself in a hug for hours telling myself how strong I am, how beautiful I am, how much I love myself, giving myself the things that I had been seeking my entire life. That validation, that pride that I wanted to hear from.
Shawn Wells (16:15)
parents from elders, from teachers, from mentors, I gave that to myself. And that was unbelievable. My heart was bursting. And while I’d like to say every night is like that on Ayahuasca, and I was thinking maybe I like hacked this whole thing and every night would just be beautiful laser light beams and lots of love.
Shawn Wells (16:41)
⁓ it wasn’t, ⁓ that’s what it was for me that first night. The second night, ⁓ was a little bit more difficult and there was, there was some grind in there. There was some uncomfortability in there. ⁓ And you know, that’s what this medicine does. You know, it kind of gives you what you need. And in all the ways, like I needed to love myself, hug myself, give myself.
Shawn Wells (17:11)
that validation and that pride that I never felt like I got externally. So that was powerful. But for me to struggle and grind and the message that was coming through was I was seeing like this imagery that was like uncomfortable and kind of gross almost for hours. It reminded me of like a ⁓ nine inch nails video or something. It was just…
Shawn Wells (17:40)
uncomfortable ⁓ and it finally came through the message finally came through if you don’t like what you’re seeing turn the channel like you have control like how how often have you not used your voice not used your feet if you don’t like it speak up if you don’t like it leave if you don’t like it turn the channel if you don’t like it go do something else
Shawn Wells (18:09)
Don’t sit there with it in something that you don’t like. In most of my life, I had sat with things that I don’t like or been in places I didn’t want to be or around people I didn’t truly love. And that was a powerful message I needed as well. So, know, Aya is just an incredible experience overall. And I believe that like the more you get depleted, the less there is of ego.
Shawn Wells (18:39)
and default mode network is truly shut down, turned off, the more exhausted you are. That’s why usually people have their biggest breakthroughs on the second, third, fourth day when they’re just wiped. When you don’t have any more resistance. When you can’t rationalize your way through something. When your ego doesn’t have all of its constructs anymore and it’s just wiped away.
Shawn Wells (19:08)
You don’t have the energy to resist and you have to succumb, you have to surrender and you just fall into parasympathetic nervous system with default mode network shut down, with ego essentially ⁓ off. And then this message can come through and the healing and the learning can come through and that’s when your most powerful lessons will be learned when you’re in that state and it’s no different than
Shawn Wells (19:38)
You know, I’ve done Dr. Joe Dispenza when they do the pineal gland meditation, like they wake you up at, you know, 2 30 a.m. and you do this 3 a.m. meditation, same reason. ⁓ Tony Robbins will make you go till 1 a.m. and then wake you back up for a 5 a.m. thing. And all of it’s the same reason. It’s so that you don’t have the resistance. You don’t have the constructs when you’re tired, when you’re wiped.
Shawn Wells (20:08)
That’s when you can get reprogrammed. That’s when you can make your biggest changes. So that’s done for a reason. And again, very,
Sam Believ (20:18)
Yeah, lack of sleep in itself can be psychedelic. It’s interesting.
Shawn Wells (20:22)
Yeah.
Shawn Wells (20:25)
Yeah.
Sam Believ (20:27)
Yeah, it’s interesting you described something very similar to what we do here at ⁓ Lawara, which is ⁓ the ayahuasca retreat I run with my wife. And we give people first 24 hours without ayahuasca just to get to know each other, get comfortable, just so they can let go of that ego. And then one week is normally four ceremonies and the lids start to pop off second or third night as they get worn down.
Sam Believ (20:55)
And also kind of simultaneously as they get more comfortable with the space. ⁓ There’s definitely a process to it. Like a lot of people want to come and just do one ayahuasca ceremony. so just, it’s just not, it’s not the same. need, you need that process, but then when you’ve been through it, then you can come back for less and the connection sort of have already been established. So what, what supplementation and what preparation did you do personally?
Sam Believ (21:22)
before attending ayahuasca retreat and what would you recommend to people because many people ask us about supplements ⁓ and honestly it’s just really hard to find like good information from somebody who really understands the ⁓ biochemistry of it all.
Shawn Wells (21:37)
Yeah. And that goes back to this idea of, know you wanted to touch on this too, is like the dieta, which is diet, but it means more than that. It really means everything that you are consuming. And that can be not only what you’re consuming fluid and food wise, but what you’re consuming through your ears, through your eyes, through your nose, through your brain. Like what are you consuming and how are you preparing yourself?
Shawn Wells (22:08)
When I went into this experience, I did none of that. I really didn’t change anything. I can say with my research though, one of the parts that I believe is the most profound is the idea ⁓ of doing fasting. And I believe that fasting prior to a psychedelic experience has a real purpose.
Shawn Wells (22:36)
beyond just not consuming things and kind of clearing or cleaning your body. All that makes sense. But what we know is that fasting will increase ketones, endogenous, meaning in the body levels of ketones. Ketones are a fuel for the brain. They’re also neuroprotectant. They’re also anti-inflammatory to the brain. And so what we see is we see brain energy improve.
Shawn Wells (23:07)
because it has a secondary fuel besides glucose, we see the inflammation in the brain go down, especially in areas that may have had traumatic brain injury, concussions, insults from prior physical or mental damage.
Shawn Wells (23:24)
And then we also see neuroplasticity enhanced via ketones. So I believe like this idea of doing fasting for thousands of years prior to a big psychedelic experience had an important role in actually protecting and healing the brain and having synergy with the psychedelics themselves.
Shawn Wells (23:51)
And I believe that ketones is actually one of the big scientific reasons for that.
Sam Believ (23:59)
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. ⁓ what about coffee? For example, ⁓ many dietas recommend quitting coffee, caffeine. I know you know a lot about caffeine. So talk to us about that and maybe mention a little bit about what is paroxanthine.
Shawn Wells (24:18)
Yeah, so that’s great. Great lead in there. ⁓ So caffeine, ⁓ about two thirds of the population or so, is a slow metabolizer of caffeine, meaning that CYP1A2 gene, the cytochrome P450 pathway with the liver that involves metabolizing caffeine, we metabolize it poorly. And I am one of those people and I get more side effects than benefits from caffeine.
Shawn Wells (24:48)
Caffeine in your body converts to three different things once you consume it. It converts the theobromine, theophiline, or paraxanthine. And what we know about caffeine is, especially for slow metabolizers, it’s fairly toxic. It actually has a lot of these side effects. And when you break apart fast in slow metabolizers, this is why we see in studies with caffeine.
Shawn Wells (25:16)
Some people say, like you live longer when you consume caffeine. But one, those studies typically are with fast metabolizers. And two, it’s with people that are having coffee, which has a confounding factor in it that chlorogenic acid and trigonoline are both compounds that are antioxidant and polyphenols that are potently anti-aging.
Shawn Wells (25:45)
And so that’s having a kind of like confounding effect with that caffeine, really negating some of the negative impact of caffeine. But when we look at caffeine studies where there are more negative effects, it’s because those studies tend to be without those polyphenols or antioxidants and they’re with slow metabolizers. And so when we break apart fast and slow metabolizers, we see very different results.
Shawn Wells (26:16)
And again, like I’m saying, as a slow metabolizer, it can take me days to clear caffeine from my system. It can be a 10 and a half hour half-life, whereas for a fast metabolizer, it could be a one and a half hour half-life. So about a ⁓ 7X difference, very different. So paroxanthine, you can skip the side effects and the bio-individuality of caffeine. You can skip all the side effects of theophylline and go straight to
Shawn Wells (26:46)
paraxanthine where we see very little bio individuality, where we see a very short and regular half-life of about three hours. ⁓ And we see a ton of positive effects where it actually enhances neuroplasticity via BDNF, it decreases beta amyloid plaque, it increases nitric oxide to the brain.
Shawn Wells (27:11)
increases glutathione and catalase, decreases oxidative stress. It’s really miraculous, increases dopamine, serotonin, acetylcholine, basically all the ways that we know that the brain ages. Parazanthine, for all intents and purposes, is reversing that. So this is where it’s profoundly neuroprotective, kind of like ketones. So, you know, I believe that parazanthine would have good synergy
Shawn Wells (27:41)
around these experiences. Certainly, maybe on the other end, when you’re feeling low, depleted, it might be smart to enhance blood flow, enhance neuroplasticity, these neurotransmitters being repleted, enhance the reduction in oxidative stress via glutathione and catalase, and so that you’re bringing the brain back online after an experience.
Sam Believ (28:12)
So how does one consume paraxanthine? Is there any products available or not yet?
Shawn Wells (28:13)
So.
Shawn Wells (28:20)
There’s several on Amazon or on Vitamin Shop or GNC or any places that you might go. There’s pre-workouts, there’s capsules that are just pure paroxanthine, there’s nootropic products that have paroxanthine plus some other ingredients that I’d recommend, things like alpha GPC, which is great for acetylcholine repletion and
Shawn Wells (28:47)
really helping the health of your brain lipids, ⁓ the phospholipids that make up the majority of the brain. ⁓ Tyrosine is going to help replete dopamine and bring that back online. So I’m a big fan of that. Hooperzine A is going to help with the repletion of acetylcholine because it prevents its breakdown. This is kind of like, ⁓ I like taking Kana post-
Shawn Wells (29:17)
psychedelic experience because it’s a natural SSRI and it’s going to help bring ⁓ serotonin back online in a very similar way because it’s preventing the breakdown of serotonin by blocking it at the receptor. you know, essentially a natural SSRI. So if you were to do like 5-HTP, ⁓ you know, things like saffron,
Shawn Wells (29:47)
and where to take Kana, like that could help with serotonin. And things like acetyl-L-carnitine, huperzine-A, paraxanthine, alpha-GPC, those are all gonna help with bringing acetylcholine back online. And then like I said, with dopamine, paraxanthine, tyrosine, L-DOPA, those would be great. And then things that are going to enhance neuroplasticity.
Shawn Wells (30:16)
are going to be excellent as well because you want to keep your brain in a neuroplastic state as you’re trying to make changes. Like one of the reasons, well two reasons, maybe three reasons that are really important with a psychedelic experience in you making change. One ⁓ is you being in a parasympathetic nervous system state when typically,
Shawn Wells (30:45)
you’re more in a vigilant sympathetic nervous system state. So this is where I recommend taking things that are anxiolytic, meaning reducing anxiety, things that are adaptogenic, meaning helping your body be resilient. So these would be things on the anxiolytic side. It would be things like magnolia bark, which contains hanukkah, L-theanine, which you can find from green tea, which are relaxing.
Shawn Wells (31:15)
And then the adaptogens are going to be things like a number of the mushrooms, ⁓ things like rhodiola and ashwagandha. And then ⁓ on the side of neuroplasticity, which is my number two factor, that’s important. Your brain is literally able to kind of rewrite itself because it’s neuroplastic. It’s in a state that…
Shawn Wells (31:42)
we can make changes readily. When our neuroplasticity is low, when BDNF is low, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, we’re in a state of low cognitive resilience. We stay in loops, and this is actually what’s seen with depression. Depression, you have very low BDNF. People that are highly mentally resilient have very high BDNF. So what we’re looking to do is maintain this high BDNF of our psychedelic experience.
Shawn Wells (32:12)
by increasing our neuroplasticity. And one of the ways to do that would be some of these agents that increase that. So one of which I mentioned is paraxanthine. And then many of the polyphenols are helping with neuroplasticity. So things like resveratrol, terastilbene, quercetin, chlorogenic acid, vicetin, apigenin. But one of my favorites,
Shawn Wells (32:40)
that seems to have the most profound effect is something called 7-8-dihydroxyflavone. And this is one that you can’t get that widely on the market. I know you can get it from Neutropix Depot, ⁓ but it’s not something that you can get widely on the market as of now. It’s pretty new. And then lastly, so keeping your body in parasympathetic post-journey,
Shawn Wells (33:10)
keeping neuroplasticity up. And then again, repletion of those neurotransmitters is going to be important. And so that’s what I was mentioning with the acetylcholine, the dopamine, the serotonin, bringing those back online, because when we’re in a psychedelic space, all of those are elevated. All the neurotransmitters come up. And depression, by the way, the whole serotonin theory has been disproven and is highly flawed in two meta-analyses.
Shawn Wells (33:39)
in, I believe it was 2017 and 2022, there was two very conclusive meta-analyses that showed that they potentially have more harm than good and very little benefit. And that’s because the serotonin theory of depression is very flawed. When we look at depression, ⁓ all the neurotransmitters are turned down. And again, neuroplasticity is turned down. And this would make sense
Sam Believ (33:55)
because this year.
Shawn Wells (34:09)
because our body, our physiology wants us to feel less when we’re traumatized. It wants us to not see colors as bright, not to have as many things come in, not to have as much change coming in, not to sense things on as deep of a level. You basically become numb and that’s done for a reason, to protect you. Now long-term, that is not very protective.
Shawn Wells (34:38)
Short-term it is it may give you time to deal with some of these things especially if that trauma is ongoing and for many people that trauma is ongoing and They need to leave that trauma. That’s one of the problems with doing a journey is Some people go right back to the trauma
Shawn Wells (35:01)
And that’s a really bad situation and that’s where a facilitator is important and you having safety in your life is important, not just where you’re being facilitated, but where you’re going back to post facilitation. That’s really important as well. So those are all important. Bringing those neurotransmitters back online, keeping yourself neuroplastic and then reducing anxiety.
Shawn Wells (35:28)
and staying in a parasympathetic state, that’s going to allow for your nervous system to make changes. You’re going to be more able to have that effect on the ego and constructs, like keeping that lowered ⁓ versus where you typically are when you’re more in sympathetic nervous system, you’re not going to readily make changes.
Sam Believ (35:56)
Thank you, that’s all great explanation. ⁓ One last question about the paroxanthine because it seems interesting to me. I kind of suspect I’m the bad metabolizer, but I, you know, as we record, I’m here in Colombia, right in the middle of the coffee area. I can see from my window a coffee farm. So ⁓ I think coffee is the psychological thing as well. It’s this hot brew you have in the morning, you’re holding your hand. ⁓
Sam Believ (36:25)
⁓ Is there is there a way to maybe get I’m giving you a product idea ⁓ Get make a some decaf coffee With some paracetamol in it. So it’s kind of what mimic Is it does it already exist?
Shawn Wells (36:36)
It exists. It exists. Yeah, it’s called, there’s a product called Rarebird. ⁓ Yeah, no, it’s called Rarebird. And you can get it, I believe on Amazon as well. That does have parisanthine. But one of what I do is it’s actually kind of a low level of parisanthine. It’s only 60 milligrams a cup. And I prefer about 200 to 300 milligrams.
Sam Believ (36:42)
somebody that happens to me so often. have a good idea but it’s already exists.
Shawn Wells (37:05)
So what I do personally is I just use a decaf coffee. I kind of bulletproof it with some MCTs, some butter or heavy cream. I often add collagen, maybe cacao, ⁓ and then maybe even some adaptogens like mushrooms, some powdered mushrooms I might add to it. I know that’s a lot in your coffee, but…
Shawn Wells (37:34)
then I might just have, I know, capsule of paroxanthine with it instead of ⁓ trying to worry about, you know, having the paroxanthine in the coffee.
Sam Believ (37:46)
Interesting. ⁓ Speaking of coffee, you mentioned anti-aging effects of it and just, I know you talk a lot about longevity and you mentioned biohacking as well. ⁓ I, interestingly enough, I was learning about psychedelics through biohacking podcasts as well, like Dave Asprey, and then I was listening to Tim Ferriss and all those people you mentioned. So it’s a kind of, let’s say a very ancient form of biohacking, but ⁓
Shawn Wells (37:55)
Mm-hmm.
Shawn Wells (38:15)
Mm.
Sam Believ (38:16)
A lot of time I see biohackers ⁓ or people that focus on longevity, they… ⁓ What’s the name of this guy? He’s like really pale and tries to live to 300 years old. ⁓ Yeah, Brian Johnson. ⁓ has this perfect structure of this is the supplement I take after this and this and that. But in reality,
Shawn Wells (38:30)
Brian Johnson.
Sam Believ (38:44)
I think it’s pretty stressful for you to be so controlling of your life. it’s like, what, what in your opinion is the, the role of mental health in, in, ⁓ in biohacking and longevity?
Shawn Wells (38:57)
This is a great great great point and one that I’ve brought up very often in my book again the the energy formula I talk about ⁓ The blue zones ⁓ and you know, there’s people there that are living easily past a hundred super centenarians That are smoking that are having wine that are not doing any peptides that are not doing any injections that are not doing any you know PRP and
Shawn Wells (39:25)
and stem cells and ⁓ IV fluids and whatever. They’re not doing any of this stuff. They’re not doing any of the supplements I’m doing. You know they’re doing? They’re having good companionship, deep friendships, deep family relationships. They have purpose in their life. They slow down. They prepare their own food and that food is very healthy. They have three to four hour dinners at night.
Shawn Wells (39:54)
When they drink their wine, and this is one of the reasons that I think alcohol is very confounding too, is Americans drink alcohol to get drunk and we’re out at bars and there’s loud music and they’re screaming and, you know, all these things. Whereas when I was in Sardinia, Italy, one of the Blue Zones, they’re drinking wine, they’re having a glass of wine over three hours, enjoyed with a nice meal and good friends.
Shawn Wells (40:23)
and they’re relaxing and life is slowing down and they’re grateful for their lives. So that’s called psychosomatic anchors around alcohol. Now every time they taste that red wine, they’re gonna think about slowing down, about being nurtured, about friendship. When we’re drinking alcohol in America, we’re thinking about anxiety and hooking up and am I safe? Am I gonna puke? How much money does this cost?
Shawn Wells (40:52)
How do I get back home? Can I drive? You know, it’s a very different thing with alcohol, but you know, going back to the point you’re making with Brian Johnson, I think there’s a lot of glitz and glamour around the magic pill, the magic shot, the magic whatever, this kind of whatever the biohack or device is. And while some of these things can help,
Shawn Wells (41:22)
I believe the framework needs to be built on a healthy base. That healthy base needs to be more like that Sardinian person. You need to love yourself like I was talking about earlier. You need to have a healthy group of people around you that support you, that are a network that you can fall back on, that you feel safe around. You need to have healthy food going in your body. You need to get great sleep.
Shawn Wells (41:53)
And those don’t sound sexy. by the way, another one is intimacy and sex. The data around sex is mind blowing. Probably the two most profound things that I’ve seen are maybe three. Intimacy, you could argue, is like friendships or relationships. But having sex with a committed partner, incredible in terms of the immune system, longevity.
Shawn Wells (42:23)
Health span, risk of diseases, ⁓ depression. You go across the board. These numbers are massive, massive difference if you’re having sex a few times a week with a committed partner. If you have these deeper relationships and friendships around you, massive. A Harvard study showed that
Shawn Wells (42:51)
That was the number one predictor of longevity was quality relationships. And so like these things are profound. And then lastly, sleep. This is one of like, these are simple things, but we deprive ourselves of sleep. And I’m telling you, your health drops off precipitously at seven hours or less. I didn’t say five, I didn’t say six, I said seven hours or less. Your brain becomes
Shawn Wells (43:21)
insulin resistant type 3 diabetes. It’s literally giving your brain temporary Alzheimer’s and diabetes and that can be long term. All of all diseases, well the risk for a heart attack, the risk for diabetes, the risk for nearly all diseases, weight gain, obesity are all going up dramatically when you don’t get enough sleep.
Shawn Wells (43:50)
And so these are easy. So if you’re one of these people like I was before I had done my journey, where I was grinding, where I was working 100 hours a week, where I was sleeping four hours a night, where I was in ultra vigilant states of sympathetic nervous system, where I didn’t have friendships around me. I didn’t trust many people. I didn’t have a committed relationship with like deep intimacy and sex.
Shawn Wells (44:21)
and I was doing all the bio hacks. Bio hacks were keeping me alive. They weren’t anti-aging. They weren’t improving my health span. They were keeping me alive. So what is most important is that your mindset is healthy, that the people around you are fostering your growth, that you are seeking out things in your life that light you up and give you energy.
Shawn Wells (44:48)
Those are the things that now you can add in the PRP or stem cells or V cells. Now you can add in the EBO2 and blue light, red light, all these different things. And I talk about all of them in my book, the supplement stacks. Cool, all of those are great ⁓ after you have that proper foundation.
Sam Believ (45:13)
Here’s what I’m hearing. ⁓ Have a glass of wine with your wife and then have sex and then go to sleep and don’t wake up for at least eight hours. That’s what you should all guys do that are listening. ⁓ You mentioned companionship, right? The importance of it in Blue Zones. what we see here at the retreat is how deprived people are from company. Like as a society, you said,
Shawn Wells (45:26)
Yeah, 100%.
Sam Believ (45:43)
the way we’re drinking alcohol is kind of wrong. And also I think the way we have our relationships, we’re sort of missing that aspect of tribe. And a lot of time, as I like to say, half of the healing comes from ayahuasca and the half comes from the group dynamic. When people start sharing openly in the word circles, we kind of create that culture here to retreat. And then they start ⁓ opening up and being vulnerable. And then obviously ayahuasca and they go through this experience together and they start connecting.
Sam Believ (46:14)
It’s amazing, like people form friendships for many years sometimes. ⁓ we’re missing it so much. ⁓ What do you think about that?
Shawn Wells (46:25)
there’s no deeper bonds that I’ve seen than the people I’ve done journeys with. I mean, ⁓ here’s the thing, like you can have people that you’ve known your entire life that don’t know you on the level that someone may learn you across a few days in a journey situation where you’ve made yourself truly vulnerable. Like raw scene.
Shawn Wells (46:53)
where your shadow is present, stuff that you haven’t let anyone see, even in your own family, even in your closest relationships, even your husband or your wife, your kids, your mother, your father, your brothers, your sisters have not seen this part of you. And so when you witness others going through this transformation, being that vulnerable, being that raw, there’s nowhere else.
Shawn Wells (47:22)
but for you to lean in as well and to love. Because when you witness others being that raw and that vulnerable and desiring change, now it’s possible for you. This goes back to the idea of Roger Bannister in the four minute mile. It was thought to be impossible. And then when he broke it, tons of people broke it. Because now what was impossible is possible.
Shawn Wells (47:52)
When you witness others, it’s now possible in your brain. And the second it’s possible, everything changes.
Sam Believ (48:02)
Thank you, Sean. Those are beautiful words. On that note, let’s wrap it up. So tell us again, please. ⁓ Maybe any last comments and then where can people find you and your work?
Shawn Wells (48:18)
Yeah, mean, last comments are, you know, going back to my book and this idea like the energy formula, seek things that give you energy that light you up. If I was to tell you right now, ⁓ the easiest advice is make a list of the things, the music, the movies, the friends, the hobbies, the jobs, the places that give you energy.
Shawn Wells (48:47)
and then make a list of the things that take that energy away. And start seeking out and enriching your life with the things that give you energy. It sounds so simple, but I guarantee 99.9 % of people listening right now have not done that list. And I guarantee there’s a lot of stuff in your life that you’re seeking out right now that’s someone else’s energy and not yours.
Shawn Wells (49:16)
So that is an important step, I believe, into gaining freedom and to gaining happiness. ⁓ And lastly, where to find me is ⁓ Seanwells.com, S-H-A-W-N-W-E-L-L-S. My book is at energyformula.com. You can find me on social media at Seanwells, S-H-A-W-N-W-E-L-L-S. I have a lot of free information on
Shawn Wells (49:45)
supplements, mindset, psychedelics, nutrition, biohacking, all that good stuff. So yeah, thank you for having me on.
Sam Believ (49:54)
Thank you, Sean, it was a pleasure. Guys, you’re listening to Ayahuasca Podcast. As always, we do the hosts and belief, and I will see you in the next episode.