In this episode of Ayahuasca Podcast, host Sam Believ (founder of http://www.lawayra.com) has a conversation with Rinus van Offeren. Rinus is a former Dutch special forces bodyguard who once protected royalty and politicians, and is now a men’s coach helping others heal through emotional reconnection and plant medicine. His transformation from a high-stress, emotion-suppressing life to spiritual awakening through Ayahuasca is a powerful and moving journey.
We touch upon topics of:
- 3:01 — Midlife crisis, depression, and loss of purpose
- 4:30 — Stress, hypertension, and hospitalization
- 5:50 — Breakup and emotional collapse
- 7:59 — Suicidal ideation and sitting on the rock in Ibiza
- 9:45 — First Ayahuasca ceremony in the jungle of Mexico
- 11:34 — Belief in God and spiritual awakening
- 13:38 — Feeling connected to everything (God as unity)
- 15:10 — The soul’s journey and view on death
- 16:46 — What to do if you’re feeling suicidal
- 18:00 — Plant medicine vs psychiatry
- 21:07 — “What if Ayahuasca saved Chester Bennington or Kurt Cobain?”
- 22:16 — Letting go of control and facing inner darkness
- 23:09 — The difficulty and reward of healing
- 24:41 — Emotional repression, stress, and physical symptoms
- 25:35 — Rinus’s past as a teenage drug dealer
- 27:30 — Transition to government work and emotional detachment
- 29:12 — Reconnecting with emotions and becoming human again
If you would like to attend one of our Ayahuasca retreats go to http://www.lawayra.com
Find more about Rinus van Offeren on Instagram or linked in @rinusvanofferen to learn more about his coaching work with men.
Transcript
Sam Believ: You’re listening to ayahuasca podcast.com.
Rinus van Offeren: I don’t believe in God the way like we have, for example, in the Bible or that we have with religions, but I believe in maybe a God as a source of everything. I think like in total, I have like maybe between 15 and 20 ayahuasca ceremonies at such deep, profound experiences and like in many, I felt this.
Feeling of wholeness with everything. Before I was happy, but like unconsciously happy. I was just living life and every day I got up and I was thinking like, oh, I want to make this the best day of my life, but I have no like deeper thoughts about life or anything. And now I’m like so conscious of like how much time I have and that I need to spend it.
Like with purpose, everything is already there. You just have to remember all the external stuff. Once you find out that it’s not that meaningful, there’s only one place to search, right? It’s like inside yourself. And I feel like there’s this inner wisdom inside of ourselves that we forget about because we have our lives and everything’s busy and we’re chasing all this stuff.
But when you use Ayahuasca, I think you can really connect with this inner wisdom and inside. For me, there’s like this unconditional love and like this inner peace and this feeling of universal trust. I think that if anybody feels it, then they can be happy even without anything. I believe that anybody that gets in touch with this feeling of healing, you can solve a lot of things for yourself.
Sam Believ: Hi guys, and welcome to our podcast as always, really the host, Samie. Today I’m having a conversation with nus.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah,
Sam Believ: renos is a really cool guy. He is, been a volunteer here for a few months. Patient previously before that Renos has his own personal brand, helping older man especially be healthy and happy and things like that.
Ritas is an ex military. He used to protect the royal family, right?
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah. I did bodyguard work for 10 years and for the Dutch royal family and also politicians and that stuff.
Sam Believ: Dero family politicians. So he has a very interesting story that I’d like you to hear. This episode is sponsored by Lara Ayahuasca Retreat at Lara, we combine affordability, accessibility, and authenticity.
Lara Connect, heal, grow. Guys, I’m looking forward to hosting you, Serenas. Yeah. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming on. First question, tell us your story. How did you go from super extra masculine, guns wielding. Yeah, cowboy, protecting cowboy to where you’re now and yeah.
Tell what brought you here and what brought you to Ayahuasca.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah. I think maybe start with the first thing, what brought me to Ayahuasca was in, in 2021 when I, like in 2020 I was 40 years old and a lot of stuff was happening in my life. I got this feeling of a midlife crisis. That was maybe the first thing that I started feeling okay, like the buses was going like for 40 years in one way.
And yeah, I don’t know. I get this strange feeling that I, that something is like transitioning and that the bus turned around and then I’m like, okay, this is the last four years of my life, so what I’m gonna do with it like the things that I was doing back then, it started feeling less valuable and more like a lack of purpose also.
So I started having these life questions about who am I, like deeply re inside what is life about, like all these things that I never thought about. And, at the same time I broke off with my ex-girlfriend. It was a 12 year relationship, like the last five years. We were talking about having a kid, yes or no, and didn’t work out.
So at the time I was living in Ibiza because I, I like 2018 I went full-time entrepreneur after my career at the Dutch government. And then I was living in Ibiza and I had everything, like my status, my money, like my success was at the highest point ever. And I just felt like totally miserable.
I felt like really depressed. And I started getting into this black hole of yeah, I like, thought that I never had before. I was always like, missed positivity, like really high stress trained and yeah, I start, started like tumbling down this rabbit hole of yeah, depre depression. And yeah, I had such a ni nice life before.
I grew up in a very loving family. My parents like really raised me in a good way, although they had their own traumas and had a lot of stuff going on. And but like in my youth also, when I got outside, I was in this environment that was pretty hard. Like I always had to like, defend myself and even as a young boy, like I, I grew up in tough neighborhoods and I also did some stuff when I was younger that yeah, were like later on in my career, it’s strange because I worked for the police force, but when I was younger, like between 15 and 25, I did some stuff that you’re a naughty kid.
Yeah, I was a naughty kid. Yeah. I was always like adventurous and trying to find the boundaries of life and yeah. Afterwards yeah, I just, I started the career at the Dutch government and then actually be, because I was like growing up in this hard environment, like outside when I was a kid.
And then went on into the government work where they like teach you the cut of your emotions. Completely. I felt like a rock after 13 years of doing this work. And I think that tumbled me when I quit the government work and I was like an entrepreneur for two years and traveling the world as a digital nomad.
I, yeah, I just stumbled in this hole of depression and not knowing how I could handle my emotions and starting feeling stuff inside, like grief and sadness, but I didn’t really Yeah. Have any method to deal with it. And yeah that’s actually what brought me to Ayahuasca Then. It’s really funny because like I broke off with my ex-girlfriend and afterwards she moved to Mexico.
It was a really sad breakup ’cause we loved each other very much and we had to break up because it didn’t work because of the child. Question. But she moved to Mexico. And then after I was in ebit, a i, I I like the trigger point to do something about it was I got in the hospital in EBIT a at one point because my blood pressure was above 200, like my upper pressure.
And I found out by coincidence, but I had this stress feeling in my body already for five years, like from my toes to my head, like every morning that I got up, I got this stress feeling was really bad. And then I got into the hospital in in Ibiza by coincidence. Spent a full evening there.
And then the doctor said you have so much stress in your body, you really need to do something about it because it’s pretty dangerous. You’re very fit, so that’s your luck. But it’s very dangerous. And then like my girl, my ex-girlfriend was in, in Mexico and she’s oh, it’s very nice to travel here.
We didn’t mean to see each other, we didn’t see each other. But I went to Mexico to travel and there I was traveling for three weeks. And then, she sent me a message and she said, I did ayahuasca ceremony and yeah, I think I think you should go. So that was like my first experience getting in touch with Ayahuasca.
Sam Believ: Okay. Do you mind sharing the story about you sitting on the rock, on the visa? Or is it a secret? No. It’s not a secret because I think it’s a really touching moment.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah. It’s like I was stumbling down this hole of like dark feelings, even to the point that I’m getting goosebumps now when I think about it, but it’s, and I can still cry about this moment because it’s like the last five years, the things that I did and the position that I’m in now, I’m so happy now.
You are allowed to cry on the cockpit. Thank you. I don’t know if I will, but I’m getting emotional a little bit. You must. No, you must, but, yeah, I was sitting on this rock, like any beat, side beat was really my island in in Europe. I really like it there. And I was sitting on this rock and like, when I got in into this when I broke up with my ex-girlfriend, I was like, I need, really need to rediscover myself because I didn’t know know who I was.
I quit my job. I went digital nomad. I broke up with my girlfriend, like this whole phase, like all kinds of things were happening and I wanted to rediscover myself. So I spent a lot of time alone like to really get to know myself again. And at one point I was in Ibiza, like in, in my place where normally I was very happy and I was sitting on this rock like this beautiful sunset, one of the most beautiful places, any beat like amazing.
Yeah. And I felt so depressed after months of dark thoughts. I thought yeah, if I jump off this cliff I wouldn’t care. And yeah, you see the emotions. Yeah, it’s it was a hard moment, but I get emotional because I know where I came from and the way I feel now, because now I have this like this, yeah.
I dunno, unconditional love for myself and this very, this inner peace and this happiness that it took me a while to get there, but yeah, I think Ayahuasca opened a door for me because I, five years ago I used to laugh at spiritual people. Like I did, like my mom is very spiritual, but I would always make fun of her and I think I thought I, like spiritual people were like hippie, like folk.
And yeah, my vision on that changed a lot. But it started with the ayahuasca because in, I did my first ceremony in the jungle of a Mexico and yeah, I dunno. I I had experience with psychedelics before but always like party wise, so never in a ceremonial way. And that, that first experience there in the jungle in Mexico was for me, like really profound.
And yeah, I, it connected me with something that I never felt before, something bigger than myself. Like I was pretty ego-driven, like always like chasing success and status and money. And I’ve always felt ah, if I’m this age, then I’m gonna quit working. I buy a Ferrari and all that kind of stuff.
And like at that point I started feeling ah, like there’s much more important things in life and there’s like this feeling of being one with everything. Yeah, I never felt that before and I think that awakened me to want to explore more about this subject. Yeah. This whole spirituality thing.
And I think like spirituality, some, sometimes people ask me, what is spirituality for you? And like for me, it’s like this deeper search in myself to figure out life. I think that’s
Sam Believ: that, that’s something you discovered that was bigger than you, do you reckon it would be too big to call it?
God,
Rinus van Offeren: I’ve done a lot of research and I’ve, I, since that experience, I started reading books and like not really spiritual books, but like personal development stuff and maybe deeper than what I did before, because I’m like an a neuro-linguistic programming coach and I did a lot of back Yeah maybe you need it later.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Rinus van Offeren: But so I did a lot of like personal development stuff, but then I started like reading stuff that were like about spirituality and I don’t believe in, in, in God the way like we have, for example, in the Bible or that we have with religions. But I believe in maybe a God as a source of everything that we’re, that everything has energy and yeah, that’s and I felt it, like I did multiple ayahuasca ceremonies even here, like last year I did eight ceremonies here.
And in this period of volunteering I did, I dunno, four or five. So I think like in total I have 15, maybe between 15 and 20 ayahuasca ceremonies. And I had such deep, profound experiences. And like in many, I felt this feeling of wholeness with everything. I remember last year when I was here, I did one ceremony and I, my intention was to connect to the universe.
So I left my body and it was just telling me, okay, your body’s of your body’s fine. This is a safe place you can leave your body now. And I went into what I believe is like the feeling of afterlife, like dying and just going somewhere. And yeah, it just connected me to everything. Like the animals, the people in the maloca, like the wood, like I was, I remember hugging this pole for 20 minutes because I just felt it was like the same as me.
And yeah, for me that’s if we use the term God, I think that’s it for me.
Sam Believ: Yeah. The best sort of explanation I have found in my personal search is if God is a tree. It is cool. We have a tree right behind us. Yeah. God is a tree. It was a hummingbird there. Yeah.
We are leaves. Yeah. Yeah. So you’re God. Me, I’m God. So it’s like a tree without leaves is a dead tree. So it’s like we are God, but we’re not really completely God, but we’re a little bit of God. And that kinda makes sense because we’re all that, it’s a big tree with a lot of leaves.
Yeah. But still we are, we’re all
Rinus van Offeren: connected. Yeah. It’s feeling, I have this feeling now that and I had this feeling before I started really, like before I started reading the Power of Now and like these really spiritual books, like I had, because of the ayahuasca ceremonies, I had these feelings of okay I’m a soul in a human body, having this experience, right?
And like my soul is part of this bigger thing, like this sourced and eventually I’m here to experience and then I go back to, to, to the source and take my experience with me obvious with me to back to whatever that source is. And we’ll probably never know, right? Because we, yeah, we find out, found out, find out when we die.
But it’s, there’s no way to send a message from the other side. Nice. But I think that’s a mystery of life. It’s like we’re here for what? Maybe a hundred years if you’re lucky. 90 or 80 or whatever. And you’re just trying to figure out what this thing is about.
Sam Believ: Yeah. We.
It definitely changed my view on dying as well. And that notion of, that we’re souls having a human experience. It’s in the books, but it’s also, I’ve learned it from tens of different people, from different parts of the world coming here to drink ayahuasca, learning it from my ayahuasca and then telling it to me in the word circle.
They never read it anywhere. They never, and in different words. Yeah. It could be, oh, there’s an alien ship and we’re aliens. We come here and then we go back or in, in like very different many ways. But explaining the same concept. Yeah. And the whole idea of living and dying. That brings me to the topic I wanna talk to you about.
It’s you were ready to end it prematurely end your life, which is not recommended. We are here for a reason. And we have to have the full experience. Yeah. You don’t wanna quit. Ahead of the time. So first of all, congratulations and thank you for not hair not ending.
It. It was, it’s great to have you here. Great to have you as a friend, so thank you. I’m just happy you didn’t do it. But trying to reconnect with those thoughts and those feelings back then you were so close and it’s like we’re almost we’re always a hair away from it. It’s something bad happens and all of a sudden you’re like, oh my God.
There’s always a way out. Yeah. How like how, what would you tell people, like on the other side of the screen who are feeling those thoughts and maybe they’re like, I don’t know, this ayahuasca thing, whatever. What would you tell them if they’re feeling those experiences? What would you want them to do?
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah. I would want them to realize that they’re not alone. How, like, how alone it feels for you at that point. There’s always like a way out. And there’s always if you’re like at the bottom, the only way you can go is like upright, but you just have to open yourself up for the things that are like available.
And I started out with going to the psychiatrist for 13 months and talking to this psychiatrist was a woman. She was very nice. And it for me, what that did was like, I had the chance to open up finally to somebody who was objective. And but still after 13 months, I didn’t feel like I was at that point that it was like solved or that my problems were gone, or it just made me cry a lot.
And I think that energy release is very good. So it was healing, but it still felt like really superficial in a way. Not going like deep and yeah, the plant medicine it, it, yeah, changed the whole thing for me. It’s, it’s a horrible story, but I had I had a colleague when I was doing the bodyguard work, and he shot himself on a Saturday afternoon while his wife and kid was at home, and he took his service gun and laid in his bed and he shot himself in his head through the head.
And I don’t know. I remember because I always remember this story. His name was Dennis, but it is this, I was so caught off my emotions. Like I didn’t know how to handle my emotions that I like all the guys in, in, in the unit. The only thing we did was like, make like sick jokes about it and then laughed a little bit and then we, that was our way of coping.
So I was in this situation for so long that I saw horrible stuff, like also, and it just became normal was really really in, in a, yeah, for me afterwards it felt, because I was, when I was there, it. I didn’t, it didn’t bother me, but afterwards felt really toxic. And I think that also got me into this dark space, like not being connected to myself, not being connected to the, to my emotions.
So if I would recommend something to anybody that’s in that situation is just try to find help and get back in touch with yourself like on a deeper level. And I think going to a psychiatrist is good. For example, maybe as a start, but for me, plant medicine like really opened the door to healing
Sam Believ: very hypothetical questions.
And you don’t have to answer. But now knowing what you know and see, seeing what you’re seeing. Do you reckon if that he was ous was Dennis? Yeah. If he was just some in a lucky chance would have ayahuasca, would you think he would still kill himself?
Rinus van Offeren: You never know. But I think like he, like I think back about the situation a lot sometimes, and it’s like getting I remember myself sitting on the rock, and thinking okay, like I’m ready to jump in. I don’t care anymore. And for him, to get like past this level and take that gun and just shoot himself, it’s I don’t believe I was at that point because I always was thinking about my loving family and everything. I just, something was holding me back, but he got to the point that he really did it.
And it’s like maybe one step more to Yeah. Just do it. And I believe that if he would like experience, for example, ayahuasca and get this deeper feeling of what’s possible to heal, like really get in touch with this darkness that’s inside you and, yeah, getting the opportunity to heal it. I think that maybe, I dunno.
Yeah, it’s a hypothetical, but yeah, I believe that anybody that gets in touch with this feeling of healing is, yeah, you can solve a lot of things for yourself.
Sam Believ: There is some magic that happens when you work with this medicine. They just kinda opens up something that just changes your perspective forever.
And I just I’m very passionate about this work because I’ve seen how it’s helped me and so many people, so I just can’t help but think what if instead of drinking alcohol every Christmas, we would all drink ayahuasca, like with all those Kurt Cobain or I forgot the name of this, the solo guy in the Lincoln Park.
Oh yeah. What would they kill themselves or maybe they’d still be around, it’s first it’s very hypothetical but if you’re listening and you’re, you’re struggling, get some help, talk to a friend. And if it’s really rough and you’re just like nothing else.
You think, nothing else you think is working and you haven’t tried before, just give it a try. Yeah. We had quite a few people that did it, and it worked for them. Not a medical advice of course, but No, it’s if you have nothing to lose
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah.
Sam Believ: And you’re just afraid to be like, to puke for one night.
Yeah. You have no reason to be afraid.
Rinus van Offeren: Because, no. It’s like the one thing that like, because I wanna bring groups of men here. And the one thing that I always hear is people are afraid of letting go of control and there’s darkness inside them, so they’re like afraid of what they’ll run into.
But for me, like I al also had a lot of darkness in myself. And we’re always talking about surrendering, right? Yeah. Giving yourself to Mama Ayahuasca and just surrendering and let her show you what you need. And, yeah, I think a lot of people could benefit from it. If you look at the western modern, like medical world and all the things they prescribe, if you don’t feel good.
Yeah. Like for me I think ayahuasca and plant medicine in general could do a lot more healing than the western medicine that we have. But
Sam Believ: yeah, it’s not gonna be easy if you’re so bad emotionally. Yeah. Coming to us, it’s not gonna be like rainbows and butterflies.
You’ll purge and there’ll be pain and stuff will come up, but it will a hundred percent release something and then therapy integration. And you can have a, you can have a new life. So just as a motivation for some of you who are struggling, let’s talk about repressing emotions and stress. Like I personally did it for a long time as well.
I, when I was working at offshore and gas, it was just an unpleasant life. You work for 12 hours a day. You do things that you don’t really enjoy, you just do it for money and you just counting days. So you go back home and then you come back home and you’re like, oh, 28 days from now, I have to like, go back and you can’t help it, but you’re like, oh, I have three weeks left, two weeks left.
Just like constant anxiety. And then before that, my traumatic childhood and just like living a life that is not enjoyable. You like, logically your mind is oh, lemme just this emotion thing. Lemme just switch it off because if it’s unpleasant all the time, why my, why bother? Yeah.
Yeah. And I did it myself as well through medicine when I opened up to the emotions and I feel more how was that process for you and do you reckon repress trying to find a connection between repressing your emotion, that stress building because of that and your blood pressure and like what how did it feel and like any thoughts about that?
Yeah,
Rinus van Offeren: Like for me, I grew up in this loving family and inside the family, like I was all love. Like I, I know that I’m like inside, I’m a good guy and I have a lot of love in me, but because of the environment that I grew up in and just like the way my life, like I, I feel like now looking back at the first 40 years, I was always trying to be this tough guy, like this really masculine guy and it’s like I was trained for it also.
And yeah I think I started at a young, as a young, at a young age to like outside when I was like in this like tough environment and I needed to fight for my spot and just, I don’t know, it just turned me into this, yeah, this tough testosterone monkey that that’s exactly how I see you still.
Yeah. Yeah. Still just kidding. Yeah, I have a good balance in masculine and feminine energy. Yeah. I think, but yeah, it’s I dunno, something sometimes I think back about it, like how, where did it start or where did it happen? And I think I, it happened re at a really young age, like I’m gonna tell the story.
Okay. Because I don’t tell this story much because the rest of the world doesn’t know. But when I was 15, I started drug dealing and I did it until the age of 23 and I got like this gang related stuff going on when I was 15. And even in the Netherlands, like you don’t think they have it there, but it’s like, when I went outside, it was all like really like small time criminals.
And that was like, it started that way. Graffiti and that kind of stuff. Yeah, but then it grew into oh, I wanna make some money. And yeah, I just started drug dealing, started with meat and then like in Holland we have a lot of ecstasy pills and cocaine and that kind of stuff. And it just grew into this, to this business that eventually was pretty big.
And I had to tough enough to like really yeah, like I to get around in that space because there’s survive. Yeah. There’s a lot of danger there. And like I, I, when I was 20 or 21, I bought a gun to protect myself. So it was like and my parents didn’t know like anything. I was still like living at home with my parents and just outside.
I was in this life that, that was like, pretty dangerous. I had some some nasty situation going on and it was, there was like a lot of money going around. I had I dunno, I don’t remember how much I spent when I was like between 20 and 23, but like a lot. So I had this life that were, for me, like very adventurous and it felt like really good, but I got into some bad situations.
And I think there, I made the switch to cut myself off of my emotions because I needed to like, like if it was necessary, I needed to do stuff that wasn’t really nice. And then afterwards I, when when I stopped, I quit because like eventually I thought I don’t want to keep doing this.
And a friend of mine, he got caught, so that made me like stop. And then I worked a corporate job for a year and a half because I graduated school and then I went to work and I felt so miserable and happy and my dream was always to go like into special forces and do like government work and special units and this and that.
And then I, after a year and a half I applied and then I went into the, to the service stuff. And there it’s just, you get trained like from day one to just cut off your emotions. It’s like emotions are weakness. You don’t need them. Cut them off. But it I did the work for 13 years. I was, I think I was pretty good at it.
And but it also estranged me a little bit from normal life. So near my family, near my friends. I was like four or five days a week I was doing the work and I was like in this other place, in this whole other world where emotions weren’t allowed. And then in the weekend I would go to this kid’s birthday of one of my friends and was just standing there and I was like, what the fuck are you people talking about?
This is so strange for me. Yeah. So it really ther me. And I think that whole like, cutting off the emotion stuff it’s not a good thing. Like you see so many people here that are like caught off from the emo their emotions. And like for me ayahuasca is a very good way to get back in touch with it.
Sam Believ: Yeah. I personally was able to reconnect myself with emotions. Not immediately took a while, and now it’s I’m, I always, I almost regret it sometimes. Yeah. Because it’s so painful. Yeah. Yeah. It is. When the bad emotions come, you’re like, it’s like you feel them all at the same time, but then I’m also able to feel good emotions.
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that’s what makes you human. Yeah. And if you don’t feel anything, you’re just a robot.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah. Yeah.
Sam Believ: But it’s interesting, your story’s pretty cool. You can make
Rinus van Offeren: a movie about you. Yeah. Sometimes people they tell me to write a book or something. Yeah. You went, I went from dealing drugs to like protecting like Dutch Royal family was like yeah.
You went
Sam Believ: from the bottom of the society to the top. To the top, yeah. And now you look like someone who should wear linen clothes and have a copper mug.
Rinus van Offeren: Like I wear, it’s all the time. Like fortunately it wash from you. Yeah. I feel like this yeah.
Sam Believ: It’s beautiful as well because it shows that anyone can change.
There’s never lead to change. Life is not stagnant. You can be many different things. Yeah. And you can navigate your way. Yeah. And you can, even from the most darkest moments, you can learn about things and not only that, but you can bring all of that together. And then help other people like you do.
Yeah. Is
Rinus van Offeren: can I say one thing about it? Yeah. Like it’s I feel like after doing the ayahuasca and having this spiritual awakening and doing this deeper spiritual work that like everything that I did in my life it was meant to be like it happened for a reason. Yeah. Like even all the dark stuff, everything happened for a reason to bring me to this point, like where I am now.
And that’s I’m, yeah. I’m still the same guy. I just expanded my identity and now I’m not doing that a hundred percent masculine stuff anymore. But I switched to like really balancing out like the masculine feminine energy and getting in touch with my deeper self and my emotions.
And I, I’ve. Actually, like before I was happy, but like unconsciously happy. I was just living life and every day I got up and I was thinking like, oh, I want to make this the best day of my life. But I had no deeper thoughts about life or anything. And now I’m like so conscious of like how much time I have and that I need to spend it, like with purpose and just when I have stuff, my life is very good, but I still have like stuff going on, right? We all have stuff going on, but now I’m like so much better in like handling it like just feeling through it and just also knowing like a universal trust that Ayahuasca gave me, that everything will be okay.
And it you for example, like sometimes it’s crazy because you, you said about dying, right? But I, because of my ayahuasca ceremonies and especially the one where I went into the universe, my whole fear of dying that I have like in, in phases of my life, it’s like totally gone. If I would blow up my last breath after this podcast I would be, yeah.
Satisfied. It’s like a really strange feeling. I’ll resuscitate you. Mouth them off. Yeah. Yeah. So die. Yeah. No I’m not going to, I saw in a vision once that I’m gonna be 89, so I have trusted that I’ll have some more years. You never know. It’s a good age, but yeah, we have to spend every minute of our life trying to yeah, live it with purpose, I think.
Sam Believ: Yeah. It’s that’s the beauty of ayahuasca, right? You come to it for healing I’m a little depressed. Lemme just heal and then your whole world get turned, gets turned upside down. You, your values change and you understand those things. And it’s, I’ve been in this work for five years now. It still feels like a very beginning.
Yeah. And the beauty of your journey and your story is if you were just you come from a beautiful family and let’s say you just went to a good school and then you went to good job and. Now you’re same age, but you never had those experiences. Who, like people would not care about your story ’cause like, how can you tell someone like what to do and how to overcome struggles if you never had one yourself?
Yeah. Like how could you coach someone if you just had nice life. Yeah. Yeah. So you, your pain and your struggles give you the strength to then help others. Yeah. So all of the people and I meet so many people and the people that I interview on the podcast as well, they had like really bad things happen to them or really difficult life.
Yeah. And they went to really dark places to then be able to get to understand the full spectrum.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah.
Sam Believ: So let’s talk about that a little bit. Your work, you work with men. You help men get fit. Yeah. Mentally fit. You say you wanna bring them over here. Let’s talk about that and try and talk about.
Midlife crisis. I’m sure you deal a lot with that. Yeah. What is it you said you had it yourself?
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah,
Sam Believ: I had my little sort of quarter life crisis when I was about like in between 25 and 30. Yeah. That kind of brought me to this life. Yeah. So let’s talk about
Rinus van Offeren: that. Yeah. Yeah. For me it was like this strange feeling.
I, I dunno, it’s the, I dunno, it’s like the age of 40 or something. But for me, it happened like when I was 40 and I, all these things were happening in my life and I was going down this rabbit hole of darkness. And I just got these bigger life questions that I never had. Who am I Right?
Like deeply inside. Like I’m living this superficial life. It’s very strange because I,
Sam Believ: who are you though? Do you know the answer? And or can you word it? Because people ask me that and I’m like. I kinda know, but I don’t know how to explain. Can you?
Rinus van Offeren: No, I think it’s very difficult. Like you can maybe explain on a human level, like what you do and who, and your name and like everything, like your identity, but on a deeper level.
I don’t think it’s explainable, it’s
Sam Believ: psychedelically. I understand it now. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I know. Yeah, but I can’t explain it, but, sorry, I interrupted. Thought maybe you just have an answer.
Rinus van Offeren: No worries. But it is like this deeper search in myself to I think it’s just like getting to know myself on a deep level so I can figure out this life.
Like the way it’s like like I wanna, the way I wanna live my life, because there’s you can two go two ways, right? You can be like a, like living victimhood and, or you take leadership over your life. But this mid midlife crisis feeling, actually it got enhanced because all this stuff was going on and then.
I was like, success. I had a lot of success, a lot of status, a lot of money, and it didn’t make me happy. And I like all the things that I was always chasing. Yeah, it felt yeah, not worthless because I I see money as energy now, and I know I needed to like, provide in my life, but like all the things that I was chasing, it didn’t feel like it gave me the satisfaction afterwards that I always thought it would be or would have.
And yeah, that’s what like tumbled me into this feeling of midlife crisis. And the guys that I helped, now, the guys that I coach are mostly like successful businessmen and they have everything, like they have this family and they have money and a company, or they sold their company and they’re retired already on a young age.
And, but they lack happiness inside. And they have this feeling of emptiness that, yeah, that’s that I recognize because I had it in 2020, 2021 like this. Emptiness inside, like of having everything but still not feeling yeah satisfied. I think it’s not I don’t know if satisfied is the right word, but like feeling a little empty and purposeless.
Sam Believ: How can I ask help? Because you wanna bring them here. Why?
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah, because like I, I know because of coaching all the guys that they have a lack of purpose, right? They have been chasing this thing all the time, all their life, and then they have it, and then they find out that’s not what makes them happy and like to feel like happy inside is I found out because of Ayahuasca that there’s like this inner wisdom inside ourself.
That I forgot about it. I, it is funny because I did a ceremony last week and I wrote one thing in my journal, and it was like, everything is already there. You just have to remember. And I feel like there’s this inner wisdom inside of ourselves that we forget about because we have our lives and everything’s busy and we’re chasing all this stuff.
And but when you use Ayahuasca, I think you can really connect with this inner wisdom. And inside is the, this for me is, this is my truth, right? But it’s for me, there’s like this unconditional love and like this inner peace and this feeling of universal trust that I think that if anybody feels it, then they can be happy even without anything.
I, like my, my, sometimes my world’s burning, right? Like stuff around me happens and it’s like on fire. And I don’t know, for me, I just can go back even when I’m not using Ayahuasca, but I can go back to this inner wisdom inside myself and just be safe and be happy and feel this inner peace, even though I have problems.
And I know that it’s gonna solve itself. And I’m a hard worker, so I work to solve stuff, but I feel like the universe is guiding me in that way. And I found out because of ayahuasca. So that’s why I wanna bring the guys here and like really try to connect them with something because this is my experience, right?
Like the experience will be difficult different for everybody, but trying to let them connect with something that’s yeah, maybe unexplainable, but they will feel it. When they’re here.
Sam Believ: Yeah.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah.
Sam Believ: That’s the challenge of this work this podcast or even the documentary we’re making, you and I, we understand very well Yeah.
What it is we’re talking about. Yeah. Yeah. But how do you explain to people that feeling or that understanding or that, so hopefully if someone is listening to hunger episodes, eventually by looking at this thing from so many different angles, maybe they can embody it without even Yeah.
Drinking. But honestly just come and do it.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah. For me it took three years. I was like investigating it already for three years, but it, like I was calls you, right? There’s this moment that it’s there and then you’re like, okay, now I’m gonna do it. But it took me like three years or something to like really get over that point to come to Ayahuasca. And also one thing that is changed for me, like I was like, and I see a lot of those guys that I coach. I see them doing it. But I was always chasing like this cheap dopamine stuff like porn, women like social media, like news.
Like I was always like entangled in this stuff of chasing this cheap dopamine. And I, one thing, like my whole spiritual journey wasn’t easy because I got rid of like I don’t drink alcohol anymore. I don’t do drugs like party-wise. I party sometimes, but I do it like on my, I get high on my own supply now.
And it’s all I quit watching porn. Like all this stuff I don’t do anymore. But I had a really hard phase of okay, I feel that I need to stop this stuff, but what can replace it? And it took me a while to find out, but Ayahuasca also showed me I had this really profound session where just showed me that I should just connect to nature.
I should meditate, I should do reading, like all this like boring stuff that I used to not find that interesting. Yeah. And like the guys I coach, I see them doing this stuff a lot. And everybody walks their own path, right? So they’ll get there eventually, hopefully. And some, maybe some people in this won’t.
But yeah I would really like for them. I’m trying just trying to open doors for them to get give them possibilities to find out another way. And I think like ayahuasca. Yeah. Like it’s, for me, it changed my life. Like it’s, I got so much profound stuff from it. It’s yeah, I’m a big fan and especially people should come here.
Yeah. Because I did it in Mexico before and it was like a shaman from Peru and. And there was a good team of helpers. So I’m not complaining about the situation, but there you had 45 minutes of explanation. This is ayahuasca. Okay, here’s a campfire. You can do this and this. Here’s your first cup.
And you could take three, four, or five in a night. Like it was a full night, like one night experience. And it was like, it felt for me like afterwards, because I had a very good experience, but it felt like more like hardcore, not really for beginners.
And I was very happy that I did psychedelics before, so I didn’t get like panicky or whatever.
But this place is so safe. Like I would recommend everybody that’s especially first timers, but also people that have more experience, to come here and do it in such a safe place with a shaman that is so experienced than like a team of loving people. And this nature here is yeah, I dunno, this is a place for me.
That’s why I’m coming back every year. Yeah. Yeah.
Sam Believ: So before we switch the topic, you were saying, yeah. Everything is within you. Yeah. And I’d love to say that I completely understand it and about it. I still seek things outside of me.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah.
Sam Believ: I think I’m getting older as well.
I think I’ll get there eventually. Yeah. But it is it is interesting to see, and I’ve also met many people who have made a lot of money, and once they did, all of a sudden they’re like, the meaning is gone. It’s like when you chase this external goal, and then when you get to the end of it and you expect something and something similar happened to me, it’s I was told that you go to school and you study one, then you get a good job, and then you make money and you buy yourself everything you need.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah. Yeah.
Sam Believ: And I guess I’m lucky because I was able to do it all so quickly
And achieve those goals society sets for you. That I could quickly see that there is nothing there in the end of it. But if you are still in it and you’re like, I still need to, I still, I just have 10 years left of mortgage to pay.
Yeah. And then once I have this house, then I will be happy. Yeah. But the happiness never comes. And especially when you meet people, I’ve met people that sell their businesses for eight figures, and they have, they solve all of their problems in the physical reality, and they all of a sudden had collapsed.
Yeah. They’re just like, everything lost, meaning, because now you can’t run away from yourself anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Externally. So it’s you gotta have to go back to the core. You have to go deep. There’s nothing outside. No. And it’s, I’m still, I’m only saying this, not as someone who completely embodies it.
I, a disclaimer, I’m still learning it, but it is, I think, very deep understanding. Anything you wanna add on that?
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah. Like we’re all trying to figure it out. I don’t have all the answers. I think this life is like a search for. And I found out, like I was always chasing stuff that eventually didn’t feel like purpose to me, like really meaningful.
And now because I did this, like searching inside myself, that’s why I’m saying like, all the answers are inside yourself because all the external stuff, once you find out that it’s not that meaningful, there’s only one place to search. It’s like inside yourself. And I think it’s a search that will never end.
So I, I’m still finding things out. I’m like discovering myself, and I really enjoy the journey. Even though it’s like sometimes very hard, but I feel like I, I realize that like we have this darkness and light in life, and you should embrace both. You need the darkness to be more light.
And yeah, it’s just and it’s, yeah, it’s true. It’s hard to explain, but it’s because of the ayahuasca. You can really connect with that deeper level in church yourself. There’s deeper consciousness. I could never find it without plant medicine, like without ayahuasca, and I found it because of ayahuasca.
There’s people who say that, ah, like meditation or this or that, and I’m like, I use all those things. But like the only thing that really brought me like really deep, I believe to my core, like on a soul level where I felt things that I probably, I don’t believe I, I could find out in any other way.
Ayahuasca brought me there and that’s why I’m like such a such a fan of it.
Sam Believ: Yeah. I love all the modalities out there. I think they all have place and they all have I meditate and I do yoga. If you can see my yoga mat right there. Yeah. Yes. This is where I do my yoga as well. Yeah. In my podcast studio.
But not often, unfortunately. I’m still trying to do more often it. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. Yeah. All of them are good. But I think for some of them, if not most of, for some of us, if not most of us we’re so far gone. Yeah. Because of the way the society is and because of how locked we are, it’s you’ll probably take me 50 years of meditation to ev ever get there, but I would not be able to meditate 50 years.
No. So I think ayahuasca this dynamite that we need, a lot of us need just to break through and then after that you can use all of the other things. Yeah. Because now you can use meditation to integrate and you can use coaching and therapy. But it’s for some of us, we’re we just won’t be able to feel it.
And on the previous topic about running away from yourself or getting something externally. Yeah. I like to say it’s like no matter where you go, there you are. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like you cannot run away from yourself. Oh no. And you can only pretend or do it temporarily, eventually to catch up with you with even more strength.
So stop. Look at the pain.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah.
Sam Believ: Go towards the pain. And if you need some help of somebody else. Yeah. You mentioned loving, beautiful team of LA Wire. I think our team is amazing. I, yesterday we had the, our little social event. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, this is not normal. We shoot the team, the work environment shouldn’t be that nice.
Yeah. People should, they should be like, it doesn’t feel like work. Yeah. It’s just too nice. They should have a little bit more pain. Yeah. But you, yourself as a member of that team, it’s you have this huge volume on social media. You have big business. Why instead of doing that, why volunteer at LA Wire?
Like why are you here?
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah. I felt it in one Ayahuasca ceremony. So I came here first as a patient, like last year in April. And then I think in the first ceremony told me like, oh, you’re gonna be a volunteer here. And my, my whole perspective of life changed, of like being egoistic or egocentric and like chasing all this stuff to being of service and just helping people.
And like I, I coach men now. I call myself like a body mindset and soul coach. I try to combine all the stuff, but it’s just, I don’t know. I just wanna spread this message of not owning plans medicine, but just trying to make people happier and live their best life.
Because life is great, right? But you, it’s what you make of it. And even if you have a lot of trauma going on, you can still get into this place where you’re like living your best life. I really believe that. Even though some people hear, you hear their stories and it’s like really horrible, right?
It’s but they leave and they’re like, in this it open like doors and it’s and that’s what I, that’s what I felt already when I was called to be a volunteer, that I would come here and be of service in these ceremonies. And yeah. It’s so grateful. It gives me so much gratitude, just helping out people.
I, and I did volunteering experience once in a hospice, so I did it for five months just to I was never like not a lot like in touch with death. So I thought oh yeah, if I wanna learn more about it, I’m gonna volunteer in a hospice and see how it is. And there it got, it gave me this feeling.
It was one of the most like, extraordinary things that I did in my life. Like the most, one of the most rewarding things. Yeah. I can’t explain it. It was so rewarding just taking care of people in that last phase of their life. And this just opened the door for me to I don’t know be of service and just help other people.
And this place for me, this already feels like my second home, right? It’s like I, I want to come back every year and I want to volunteer every year, and I come back as a patient. So I’m really connected to this place and yeah, I would just, everybody who’s thinking about volunteering just just come and try it out.
And yeah, I think it will give you a lot of gratitude. Yeah. Yeah.
Sam Believ: And mind the volunteering here is not easy. No. It’s a very emotional, it’s draining. It’s
Rinus van Offeren: yeah.
Sam Believ: There’s a lot of it’s like going to a gym. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like going to a spiritual gym. Yeah. Because you, you’re inward circle and there’s people sharing and you’re learning about yourself, and then you drink the medicine yourself.
But it, so it is hard. Yeah. But it also makes you stronger and it makes you learn a lot. Yeah. I think, like for me personally, of course I. I do a lot of it myself, and I used to do all of it myself in the beginning, but like all those word circles, for example, it’s like I can’t find a, I can’t think of a different way to gain so much wisdom than to be in those word circles.
And you start to see patterns and you analyze and you learn, and it’s just I feel like sometimes people ask me things and I’m like, oh, here’s your answer. I’m like, where do I even know this from? Yeah. Yeah. You start to feel wise. Yeah. This combination of ayahuasca and people and so much emotions.
What have you learned from volunteering here?
Rinus van Offeren: There’s a lot of stuff going on when you volunteer. Like you’re in your personal process or you drink ayahuasca and you drink the service cups and you’re in your personal process. And then you have the team dynamics, and then you have the energy of the patients.
What I’ve learned, like for people thinking about doing ayahuasca or maybe volunteering. It’s for me, the biggest lesson is if you come here and you get in touch with ayahuasca, like it will open doors that you can, that can change your life. So it’s you see the most horrible stories here, right?
People come here like child abuse, like all these stories that I’ve like unimaginable for me the things that people have gone through and then they walk out here like a week later or two weeks later or whatever they have their journey here and they walk out and they have this I dunno, this pos positive energy over them.
It’s yeah it’s very profound to, to see and you learn so much from all hearing all the stories, right? Even if you’re like part of the team or you’re like a patient here, like the word circles, like the, all the experiences of other people, it’s just healing by itself. And yeah. Yeah, I think that’s for me, like I had even my personal process, like coming here for the last couple of months it’s given me so much that yeah, it’s probably too much to this name, but yeah.
It’s really beautiful.
Sam Believ: Yeah. The seeing the buses of unhappy people come Yeah. And then buses of happy people leave. Yeah. It’s like a factory. Yeah. Yeah. Conveyor belt, people come unhappy and
Rinus van Offeren: leave happy. It feels a little bit that way. Yeah. Because we see buses come and buses leave, right? Yeah.
And every time it’s like you’re a little bit sad you had such a nice experience with this group, and then they leave again. Yeah. I worked in a factory once. It’s, it didn’t feel the same as here. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a spiritual factory. Yeah. This is spiritual factory. Yeah.
Sam Believ: You, me, you mentioned that topic couple times, masculinity.
I’ve heard people refer to you in the word circus, like reus. You’re the epitome of masculinity, like the way you balance things. Can you talk to us about that? Obviously you’re a masculine guy, you teach people, you’re military, you can kill and you can love and all that.
Now you can cry and all that stuff. So talk about like healthy masculinity. Yeah.
Rinus van Offeren: I think like healthy masculinity is like having the really good balance between being masculine and also like embracing your feminine energy. And like a couple of years ago, I didn’t even know what like feminine energy was.
Yeah, for me it’s like getting in touch with my feminine side. It’s like connecting with my emotions letting myself feel them and just cry if I have to or just go through the emotions and whatever comes and makes me angry or whatever. Like really connecting with it on a deeper level like I used to.
When I thought emotions were thoughts, right? But emotions are like in your body and your brain makes something of it. So it’s like really connecting deeply with that. And it just gave me this better understanding of myself, like better understanding of other people. Like more compassion, like intuition but on a different level.
I had intuition before because I did the bodyguard work and you need it, right? But it’s like on a different level feeling other people like their energies or what’s going on with people. I’m, and I don’t know. It’s like I, especially the compassion. I don’t think, like I was a very compassionate guy before because I was so closed off.
But now, because I’m like, so in touch with myself, I have all these things that we can call like feminine energy, but it’s I use them when I need to, so I’m still this I can be a tough guy and I could do manly stuff and people always say, oh, I feel so safe around you and you’re so masculine and this and that, but I’m, I also like, when I need to cry, I just cry because I know it’s like letting go of energy.
I don’t like I stop wearing all my masks. Like I had a lot of masks. Like I was always trying to, to the outside be this certain type of guy and now I’m like, I don’t care what everybody thinks about me. And if I need to cry, I need to cry. If I get emotional. It’s and it’s a very nice feeling.
It’s like it made me feel whole when before I was just this, yeah, I dunno. I’d always call it like this testosterone monkey and always like chasing certain stuff. And now I’m like for example, like my relationship with my girlfriend, like in my last relationship with my ex. Afterwards, like in the relationship I was a little bit egocentric, so I didn’t really care on a deep level and I was caught off by I don’t think I can, it wasn’t my, it wasn’t really my fault because I was caught off.
So far from from my emotions, but now with my current girlfriend and I think I needed to go through all that stuff before with my ex and all the relationships that I had to become this man that I am now. But now I’m just really, yeah, I can really understand my girlfriend better. So it’s yeah, it’s, I dunno, it’s just this process of connecting with this feminine energy, but still being a man and like in the world we live in, I see this like two types of men, like men that are real, like really masculine, like always chasing stuff and like how I was a little bit, but maybe in their own like personal life.
And then you have these men that are like. Becoming maybe a little bit too much to the feminine side because of like society and all the things that are going on. And I don’t know. I really feel it’s like the, if you balance it out that’s the best way to go. And I feel like really holes Yeah, you
Sam Believ: look whole.
Yeah, that’s, yeah. It’s all about balance. Yeah. Yin and yang. Yeah. So talk to us about your work what you help men with, and maybe for some men that are listening, why they should maybe reach out to you.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah, so I used to be, when I started Entrepreneuring I I was a fitness coach, online fitness coach for eight years.
I had a company and I quit it last year. I was like doing really good and, but because of like the whole journey that I’m making, I, it felt like superficial for me. So I quit it eventually and now I’m like combining all the stuff that I’m like. This whole journey that I did, I find okay, we’re like a soul in the human body.
So you need your body, right? You need a good body to live this life. So I help guys if they’re not in shape, I help them get in shape and get healthy. But it’s all, and I’m very mindset trained because of the army work and like working for the government. So I know a lot about mindset training and being strong and all that kind of stuff like handling stress and yeah, just not getting knocked off the, off your feet, like with every small thing.
But it’s also like I combine it now with the spiritual stuff. So I feel like, I don’t feel like a guru or anything, but I think I have this like inner wisdom that I found out about. And like I have, I can open doors for guys to find ways to connect deeper to themselves. And I, I do this whole package now.
Yeah, I have my own podcast. It’s Dutch, but and, yeah I have this meaning list and I just if guys need help and they mostly, they connect to my stories, right? I’m a little bit of a storyteller, so I tell stories. For example, I had I had this Viagra addiction for a long time.
I was always like having sex with women and thinking I needed to perform like really well and be a porn, like a porn actor and do this kind of like porn stuff. But yeah, if I tell that story, there’s so many men that connect to this story that they’re like, oh, I use, I Viagra also to have this feeling of performing like this pressure, or I have like different kinds of problems, like libido or whatever.
And it’s just I just tell stories and then like men connect to what I’m doing, and then I try to help them on, on a deeper level to yeah, just connect deeper with themselves. That’s that’s the main thing I do. And we just talk about life, like the way we do, like we talk about life and I’m very intuitive.
So usually it can go about their relationship, can go about their health, can go about like their search for purpose. And yeah, sometimes, I dunno, people call me a life coach, but I think, I dunno if that’s the right term, but I just share my experience and try to help guys yeah, mostly find themselves back, get healthy mentally, physically, and also maybe connect on a spiritual level.
So where can people find you? I have a website, it’s called reus van offering.com. It’s yeah, but they can find me on Instagram also and my Dutch podcast. I dunno, for international listeners is not, if
Sam Believ: you speak Dutch, check out this podcast. If you don’t speak Dutch, learn Dutch and check out this podcast.
Rinus van Offeren: But also, like if you’re English speaking, like you can find me on my website and just send me a message. What’s your Instagram handle? It’s hanran also. We one. Alfred. Yeah.
Sam Believ: Cool. Yeah. Thank you Ritas, thank you for the conversation. Thank you for your help here at Low Wire.
Thank you for the work you’re doing for the men. Thank you for your grounded energy. Thank you for wanting to bring groups of men here. I’m excited for that. Yeah, it’s gonna be interesting. Gonna be man only retreats or We do, we haven’t figured out yet. Yeah I think one day we’ll do man only retreats.
So if you’re interested into that, just send me a message somewhere. ’cause Yeah, we wanna know.
Rinus van Offeren: Yeah. It’s it’s good. But thank you for having me on the podcast and here it’s just I’m. We are getting to know each other. I feel like you’re a very good guy and we connect very well on, on different levels.
Yeah, in general, I dunno, it’s, I don’t believe in coincidence anymore, but there’s a reason we met and yeah, I’m very grateful for it. So thank you. Thank you.
Sam Believ: And guys, you’ve been listening to Ayahuasca podcast as always, with you, the host and I will see you in the next episode. I hope you enjoyed this episode.
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